Crowd At Home

[SaintDougie]

I get to as many Home and away matches as I can possibly afford which considering the travel (unless we are at Tynecastle or Easter road) is quite a high percentage. However, I did not make the Hearts game at the weekend as I was on a weekend away to Inverness with the girlfriend. I was gutted to have missed it however I had promised months ago.

One thing I did notice walking through the new shopping centre up there (which is pretty impressive itself) was as soon as I walked in the main enterance there was an ITC stall of about four or five people with flags, scarfs and banners for sale. As well as handing out promos and encouraging people to attend home games. Could something similar not be done in St John's?

[sign dave]

still not perfect, but cant seem to space collums,

Position Club Avg Att Population %ratio

1st Ross county 4341 6000 72%

2nd Killie 5077 44,000 11.5%

3rd/4th Dundee teams 14132 141,000 10.15%

5th SAINTS 3900 44,000 8.9%

6th Motherwell 5002 59,000 8.4%

7th Celtic 45667 577,000 7.9%

8th Hearts/hibs 23,639 448,000 5.2%

10th Inverness 4032 72,000 5.2%

11th Aberdeen 10,948 220,000 4.9%

12th St Mirren 4,501 120,000 3.75

if you take in to account the 3 glasgow teams their ratio is 17%. But we all know that the big full time team and the big part time team have fans from all over scotland england come up.

[SaintDinky]

I was a bit surprised by the low attendance on Saturday but as others have pointed out it is very close to Christmas so money tight for a lot of people.

Personally I haven't been for a while because I have been unemployed through ill health for the past year and £23 (main stand) is a lot to take out of my benefits. I know various clubs in SPL and lower leagues who do discounted entry for unemployed fans, have Saints considered this?

As for the relevance of value for money, it is important, if you are expecting someone to spend £25-30 on anything then of course that person is going to want a quality product/experience.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the £5 parking fee for people who travel and need their cars, I think it is far too much and must put some people off!

Beyond the points I've made, not sure about a soloution. We can't afford to cut entry prices when crowds are so small but we won't get bigger crowds with entry prices so high. Complete Catch 22!

[Honest Saints Fan]

I get to as many Home and away matches as I can possibly afford which considering the travel (unless we are at Tynecastle or Easter road) is quite a high percentage. However, I did not make the Hearts game at the weekend as I was on a weekend away to Inverness with the girlfriend. I was gutted to have missed it however I had promised months ago.

One thing I did notice walking through the new shopping centre up there (which is pretty impressive itself) was as soon as I walked in the main enterance there was an ITC stall of about four or five people with flags, scarfs and banners for sale. As well as handing out promos and encouraging people to attend home games. Could something similar not be done in St John's?

That was a once in a lifetime event for ITC but a good idea. They also have Terry Butcher's voice on an advert on the Moray Firth Radio encouraging fans to come along to the ground over the festive period, wishing fans a merry Christmas etc. Be good to get someone from the cub to do something similar on Tay FM. Gets the word out etc, mention the deals we have with kids getting in for free, the two game ticket!

[sign dave]

That was a once in a lifetime event for ITC but a good idea. They also have Terry Butcher's voice on an advert on the Moray Firth Radio encouraging fans to come along to the ground over the festive period, wishing fans a merry Christmas etc. Be good to get someone from the cub to do something similar on Tay FM. Gets the word out etc, mention the deals we have with kids getting in for free, the two game ticket!

u always hear in June/July on Tay fm Dundee and it'd advertising season tickets but never saints

[Steve McQueen]

Although Saturday was disappointing it's not as bad as seems. Comparing last year to this.

Aberdeen Last Year: 1607 This Year 4857 Difference +3250

Dundee Utd 4480 5014 +534

Celtic 6759 6700 -59

St Mirren 2939 3223 +284

Kilmarnock 2394 3113 +719

Motherwell 2885 3112 +227

Ross County/Dunfermline 3466 3037 -429

Hibs 3782 3266 -516

Hearts 2770 2974 +204

Up 4214 in total 468 on average.

[Jimmy Wallace]

Interesting that Ross County get such good crowds. Of course it could just be the novelty value of them being in the top league for the first time. What is always said about them though is the fact they attract large numbers of fans from their hinterland. Perth has a large hinterland too. We have competition to the East and South but vast swathes of Perthshire to the North and West of Perth have no senior teams. I know folk come from Aberfeldy, Auchterarder, Crieff, Blairgowrie etc. Is it just Perth or is the "Big County" letting Saints down too?

[Saintdunc]

I heard on 5 live the other day that Bayern, and other German clubs, charge 10 Euros to get into their games. I have not been on their website to establish this, but, if it is true then why cannot we do this in the UK? Surely this would entice the absent majority back to football.

[sign dave]

I heard on 5 live the other day that Bayern, and other German clubs, charge 10 Euros to get into their games. I have not been on their website to establish this, but, if it is true then why cannot we do this in the UK? Surely this would entice the absent majority back to football.

im sure Cosgrove talked about this last season on off the ball, the clubs all took a massive hit in the first 3-4 years as the fan base was low but it gradually grew bigger and now they are reeping the rewards.

[Jiangsu Sainty]

13 Euros for a standing ticket, bit more for a seat.

Everyone in their right mind wants a standing ticket anyway though

[Scobby_SJFC]

I thought at we were potentially looking at Hearts being a club that filled both stands behind the goals?

I think their fans are trying to fill their own groind for their own circumstancesd at the moment

[Jamie_Beatson]

I heard on 5 live the other day that Bayern, and other German clubs, charge 10 Euros to get into their games. I have not been on their website to establish this, but, if it is true then why cannot we do this in the UK? Surely this would entice the absent majority back to football.

It may just be me, but I've been to two Bayern games and the cheapest tickets each time that I could get were 35 Euro.

[sign dave]

My heads buzzing with stats. This is taken if all supporters are adults I know kids are cheaper, but need to protect ourselves financially.

If we say there are 2,900 fans in the long stands and 1000 in the Ormond (totaling our average crowd). £20 in long stands and £15 in Ormond per person gives us £73k per game in terms of gate receipts.

To knock prices down to a tenner (losing £10/£5 per adult in above stands) an adult we would lose £29,000 from the two big stands and £5,000 from the Ormond per game.

If we average 15 home games a season this is £510,000 a season we lose. So we would need an additional sponsor to provide £0.5M to cover our losses per season. In 2-3 years if our fan base was to increase, we need at least 7,300 people at £10 a head per game to atend in order to make sure we dont go below our income at the moment. That is a massive increase of fans we need to ensure we survive at a tenner a head.

So question is, Soutar, "you want to give us some dough?"

[sign dave]

It may just be me, but I've been to two Bayern games and the cheapest tickets each time that I could get were 35 Euro.

you got had big time, they must of thought you were English, suprised the ticket got you in the game

[Kevin]

If we say there are 2,900 fans in the long stands and 1000 in the Ormond (totaling our average crowd).

We have not had that sort of number since we played Celtic earlier in the season, averaging about 2,300 including season tickets

[blueheaven]

Saints could be doing more to up their communication and engage with fans. Season tickets, and tickets for larger individual matches, should be sold online and everyone who buys anything from the club should automatically have their email address added to a database and mailing list. That mailing list should then be used to reach out to supporters and let us know what's happening: for everything from special offers in the club shop, to discounts on match tickets, to new signings. I've bought tickets from a lot of English clubs over the years, and all of them do this: I'm constantly emailed by loads of football clubs (and also other entertainment venues), purely on the basis that I've once bought a ticket from them.

The fact that Saints have this double-ticket for the Christmas matches, yet hardly anyone seemed to know about it, says a lot about why this sort of thing is necessary. The communication needs to be seriously ramped up. And as soon as I heard about that double-ticket, I would have liked to be able to go straight to the Saints official site and buy that ticket online. But I couldn't, so that 'impulse buy' moment has gone now. Why do I need to go to the venue in person, or phone the club, to get a ticket? I don't have to do that when I buy tickets for anything else. Why do I have to do that with Saints??

[blueheaven]

Also to add... I think Saints should even consider selling tickets online for every game. Make the tickets £1 or £2 cheaper if bought online in advance. Then use the Official site, Facebook, Twitter and the previously-mentioned mailing list to plug the hell out of those tickets. If people think they're getting a better deal, they'll be more tempted to make that impulse buy while sitting at their desk. Once they have that ticket, they will definitely go to the game, and it takes away the temptation to suddenly decide you can't be arsed at lunchtime on a Saturday. (Even if they don't turn up, the club has their money!).

Smaller clubs down here in England (e.g. League One and League Two) all do this, in my experience. If me and my mates decide during the week that we want to go to a match, we'll buy the tickets online because we know they're cheaper, and then you know for a fact that everyone will turn up. How many of us sometimes think we're going to a game with four or five people, but only two or three actually turn up? Selling tickets in advance gets rid of that.

[Steve Zissou]

We have not had that sort of number since we played Celtic earlier in the season, averaging about 2,300 including season tickets

You including the league cup game in that? From what i've seen of away attendances this seasons, our home gate can't have gone below 2500 until saturdays game (or at least much below that)

Edited December 18, 2012 by Steve Zissou

[Abernethy Saint]

We've started going occasionally this year - 4 games to date. Somewhat to my surprise, the Beloved turns out to love footy, even though that appears to have more to do with Tade's arse than anything else. I suppose we could be classed as potential season-ticket buyers, or at least more regular attenders. Given that the footy isn't at all bad at the moment (despite, in those games, a record of 1 win, 1 draw, 2 defeats, GD 4 - 9!!!!), there are two things holding us back.

1. It's too feckin cold. I know summer footy is a debate for another day, but it's just tooo feckin cold!

2. The money. The entrance fee is a joke for football at this level.But that's just the start of it - the food and drink prices - £1,90 for a spotty teenager on minimum wage and minimal grasp of English to put a crap tea bag in a cardboard cup which they don't even have to collect or wash? £5 to park in an usecured car park for a couple of hours? Everything is at premium prices. Not only does this make it more unaffordable, but it leaves you with the feeling that you're being exploited, rather than rewarded, for supporting the team. If it was the best footy, cup of tea, car park available, fair do's, but it's not.

The old macho thing about footy being a man's game, it's supposed to be cold, the boril is suposed to be shite, the stewards are supposed to be ba stards etc was fine - christ, I froze me balls off watching Highland League footy for years.But, even allowing for inflation of course, it;s vastly more expensive now - over £60 a visit for us, including petrol.

A week after one of our games, we went out for a decent meal with drinks, and to the theatre. In total, this was only about £30 more than the footy. We got fed proper grub, and got two hours of entertainment in the warm. At no point did any of the actors get sent off, none of them missed their lines from 6 yards out, and when we stood up to applaud at the end, no beardy c unt threw us out.

I'm not saying that a footy experience can or should ever be like a meal/theatre experience - they are different things, which you go to for different reasons. What I'm saying is that a pretty basic form of entertainment - 22 chunts kicking a ball round a field - with no frills and terrible service standards on occasion should not be priced at anything like the same level as a meal out/theatre visit.

Or if that's too snobby for you, replace "meal/theatre" with "weeks shopping" or "xmas pressie for the bairn" - it's the same argument.

A reasonable price for us to watch Saints regularly, with a pie and a cuppa, would be about £15 each. Even at £20, we might go more often. But we cannot and won't pay semi-posh night out prices to watch a footy game other than occasionaly, sorry. And I just can't imagine that;s an unusual view.

[Jamie_Beatson]

you got had big time, they must of thought you were English, suprised the ticket got you in the game :laugh:/>

That was via the official FC Bayern ticketing website.

These cheap tickets do exist, but in very limited numbers

[john1962]

The was a very good article in The Herald yesterday about Grrman football. The clubs keep the prices low because they want an atmosphere and are able yo do this through sponsorship. Shirt and kit sponsors pay a huge amount of money to clubs. The clubs get a lot less money from tv than England or Italy. The sponsors pay a lot of money to get their product across to a population of 82m and prefer if the games are on terrestial television That number is why it is almost impossible for us to match that model. We have just over 5m.

[blueheaven]

I heard on 5 live the other day that Bayern, and other German clubs, charge 10 Euros to get into their games. I have not been on their website to establish this, but, if it is true then why cannot we do this in the UK? Surely this would entice the absent majority back to football.

I went to a Benfica home game a couple of seasons ago - top flight match, and a local derby to boot, with a brilliant seat in a brilliant stadium, an amazing atmosphere, in warm weather and a cracking standard of football with loads of international players on show. Tickets cost us 10 euros each (so about £8). Different world.

[rik2304]

Its frustrating seeing what the club do as it seems a bit half-hearted at times. Like above I'm constantly updated from some English teams that I have shown only a fleeting interest in and yet for Saints that I have followed religously since I 1989 I have to hunt for information.

If only the club would invest a bit of time in the OS and update it a wee bit. Some decent wallpapers etc online shop with some half decent merchandise. Retro shirts do good business for example.

As its no doubt expensive could the club not utilise I.T volunteers or interns looking for some experience?

A bit more involvement with schools would be a bonus and raise enthusiasm. I still remember Lindsay Hamilton coming to my school for a penalty competition. He didnae save many to be honest and did seem to be trying!

[sign dave]

Its frustrating seeing what the club do as it seems a bit half-hearted at times. Like above I'm constantly updated from some English teams that I have shown only a fleeting interest in and yet for Saints that I have followed religously since I 1989 I have to hunt for information.

If only the club would invest a bit of time in the OS and update it a wee bit. Some decent wallpapers etc online shop with some half decent merchandise. Retro shirts do good business for example.

As its no doubt expensive could the club not utilise I.T volunteers or interns looking for some experience?

A bit more involvement with schools would be a bonus and raise enthusiasm. I still remember Lindsay Hamilton coming to my school for a penalty competition. He didnae save many to be honest and did seem to be trying!

I've got a simillar view to this, the stadium, when built was a new modernised stadium, but now I see McD as being run down, the colours to the seats are awefull IMO. I would love to do a fund raising event and replace the yellow/red seats with blue and give a good feel to the club. you go to tannadice and see orange seats, parkhead/easter road = green seats. st mirren = black/white.

for me, the yellow, red blue combo is worse than hampden.

[sign dave]

We have not had that sort of number since we played Celtic earlier in the season, averaging about 2,300 including season tickets

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=home_statistics

3922 average home attendance according to spl stats 2012/2013 season - > lowest in SPL