Eetu back out on loan again - from the BBC

[MySpazz]

1 hour ago, SaintJet said:

I think we need to move on from Vertainen. There was a gulf in the realationship between the coach and the player that was never going to be healed. It happens and we won't be the first or last to part with a player becasue of relationships.

If the lad goes on to play in the Scottish Prem with another team and bangs in a hatful of goals I might be convinced. At the moment I'm not but good luck to him.

What he forgot to mention was that the level was too high for him, so he went back to the Finnish level he was used to with Linfield. And a good option, a big fish in a smaller pond. Good luck to the guy. But let's put it to bed. Sign Dipo from Ayr and let's move on

[Cagey]

2 hours ago, garydavidson said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/eetu-vertainen-insists-st-johnstone-29393813

Vertainen said: “I knew that there would be no playing time under that coach this season either.

“So there was no point in sitting there on the bench. We made a joint decision and I left with pleasure. When I was there, he preferred to play older forwards, who played with one touch down and pushed hard towards the goal.

“I myself was different then and I liked the ball more than I should have. As long as the same coach is there, my situation with the club will be the same. So nothing has happened between us. I just don't think he thinks I'm a very good player, even if I score 35 goals a season. Here, there or in any league.

When asked if he knew why St Johnstone signed him, Vertainen, who has netted 17 times for Linfield in the current campaign said: “Actually, I'm not quite sure. The sporting director at the time really liked me. He had followed my moves to Klubi and Ilves. However, the team's head coach (Davidson) did not feel the same way.”

"In St Johnstone the feeling wasn't terribly good, which is why I wanted to go to a place where it's good to be,” he added.

“I received a really good reception in Linfield and I was immediately satisfied. The relationship with the coach and the whole club is good, and I have no complaints.

“Another club from Scotland or England would’ve been a risk, while at Linfield I knew I could play and make an impact. I have been satisfied with the solution. I consider it unlikely that I would return to St Johnstone, even if they offered an extension.”

Unfortunately nothing there that we didn't know or suspect.

[Aitchy]

1 hour ago, SaintJet said:

I think we need to move on from Vertainen. There was a gulf in the realationship between the coach and the player that was never going to be healed. It happens and we won't be the first or last to part with a player becasue of relationships.

If the lad goes on to play in the Scottish Prem with another team and bangs in a hatful of goals I might be convinced. At the moment I'm not but good luck to him.

I share similar thought. Some of the stuff about Saints mistreating Eetu is nonsense. Things didn’t work out for him when he signed for us, it happens all the time. It may have been down to his lack of ability (Davidson has mentioned that it was a gamble due to only seeing clips of him and not physically being able to scout him in person), his attitude, him not settling or the manner in which he got on with others at the club. I doubt any of us will ever know the real reason.

We haven’t let him rot in our youth team, we made him available for loan when it became transparent he was not going to get a game for us and he has done well on his loan whilst still being paid a wage by us. 

I appreciate people are frustrated with Davidson, but I don’t think there has been an ulterior motive from Davidson in his treatment of the boy. People need to stop tying themselves in knots over Eetu and move on. I wish him well.

[RandomGuy]

He got told when he signed he'd be played off a flank beside a central striker, as thats how he played in Finland. 

He then played 200 minutes none of them in the role he was promised, got chucked up front alone v Rangers and then slaughtered by his manager randomly blaming him for a goal we conceded, and was completely dumped out the squad.

He then get punted on loan, and, at 22 and having moved country to play for us, was completely ignored to the point hes been away on loan for 12 months and the manager has never contacted him once.

You can argue about his ability if you want but that, especially just ignoring him once he was loaned out, is absolutely abysmal from the club and manager and shouldnt just be brushed away as "one of those things".

[garydavidson]

32 minutes ago, Aitchy said:

I appreciate people are frustrated with Davidson, but I don’t think there has been an ulterior motive from Davidson in his treatment of the boy. People need to stop tying themselves in knots over Eetu and move on. I wish him well.

As Random pointed out the treatment from Davidson after that Rangers game was utterly staggering.

I am quite comfortable that he may not have been at our level for where he was played but the public statement from Davidson was appalling and I still think it was unbecoming of a St Johnstone manager.

[Aitchy]

57 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

He got told when he signed he'd be played off a flank beside a central striker, as thats how he played in Finland. 

He then played 200 minutes none of them in the role he was promised, got chucked up front alone v Rangers and then slaughtered by his manager randomly blaming him for a goal we conceded, and was completely dumped out the squad.

He then get punted on loan, and, at 22 and having moved country to play for us, was completely ignored to the point hes been away on loan for 12 months and the manager has never contacted him once.

You can argue about his ability if you want but that, especially just ignoring him once he was loaned out, is absolutely abysmal from the club and manager and shouldnt just be brushed away as "one of those things".

At any club I think it’s highly unlikely that a first team manager will be contacting players out on loan. It states in the article with Vertainen that he has received a few messages from one of our coaches during his loan. What else would you expect? Liam Craig does similar with other players out on loan. The club watched him in Linfields game against Kelty and will have probably had some communication with Linfield as well. He’s not been banished against his will to some impoverished country. Davidson has admitted signing him was a mistake and evidently sees no future for him at the club, so why would he waste his time on him?

 

[RandomGuy]

11 minutes ago, Aitchy said:

Davidson has admitted signing him was a mistake and evidently sees no future for him at the club, so why would he waste his time on him?

 

Id have expected him to have spoken to him in the last 12 months, or even tried to apologise for the outburst after the Rangers game which will have destroyed the confidence of a young man whos trying to get used to a new country and make friends.

If he played Cammy Ballantyne v Kilmarnock. Came out in the press absolutely slaughtering him after the game. Froze him out, loaned him to a different country and then just totally ignored him, would you say thats right?

[Aitchy]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Id have expected him to have spoken to him in the last 12 months, or even tried to apologise for the outburst after the Rangers game which will have destroyed the confidence of a young man whos trying to get used to a new country and make friends.

If he played Cammy Ballantyne v Kilmarnock. Came out in the press absolutely slaughtering him after the game. Froze him out, loaned him to a different country and then just totally ignored him, would you say thats right?

Perhaps he did speak with him about the Rangers game? 
 

In regards to your hypothetical scenario, I would have no particular issue with it if that is what the manager felt was the best thing to do. None of us watched him regularly in training, have an insight into his attitude at training or around the club in general. Maybe Davidson felt that it was best for both parties if he left. Eetu dosent seem to have suffered any, in fact, it’s the opposite, he has thrived at Linfield. I’m not questioning his ability as I haven’t seen enough of him to make a true judgement, but there are two sides to every story and some of the exaggeration over Eetus perceived poor treatment has been well over the top in my opinion. 

Football clubs like to make out that they are supportive of players mental health etc, but the reality is that it is an industry that is completely different from any other. The way players are spoken to and treated in general would not be tolerated elsewhere. At almost every club in Scotland and beyond there will be examples of players being poorly treated and isolated. Tommy Wright was as guilty of it as anyone. 
 

I just feel that people are looking far too much into things here and their judgement is being clouded by their dislike for Callum Davidson. In reality I think it boils down to Davidson not rating him and quickly identifying that he has no future at the club.

 

[pezza70]

22 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Id have expected him to have spoken to him in the last 12 months, or even tried to apologise for the outburst after the Rangers game which will have destroyed the confidence of a young man whos trying to get used to a new country and make friends.

If he played Cammy Ballantyne v Kilmarnock. Came out in the press absolutely slaughtering him after the game. Froze him out, loaned him to a different country and then just totally ignored him, would you say thats right?

Why was he frozen out but Bair has been given chance after chance?

[RandomGuy]

2 minutes ago, Aitchy said:

Perhaps he did speak with him about the Rangers game? 
 

In regards to your hypothetical scenario, I would have no particular issue with it if that is what the manager felt was the best thing to do. None of us watched him regularly in training, have an insight into his attitude at training or around the club in general. Maybe Davidson felt that it was best for both parties if he left. Eetu dosent seem to have suffered any, in fact, it’s the opposite, he has thrived at Linfield. I’m not questioning his ability as I haven’t seen enough of him to make a true judgement, but there are two sides to every story and some of the exaggeration over Eetus perceived poor treatment has been well over the top in my opinion. 

Football clubs like to make out that they are supportive of players mental health etc, but the reality is that it is an industry that is completely different from any other. The way players are spoken to and treated in general would not be tolerated elsewhere. At almost every club in Scotland and beyond there will be examples of players being poorly treated and isolated. Tommy Wright was as guilty of it as anyone. 

Doubting his ability and loaning him out if you dont think hes good enough = Fine

Leaving the loan manager (is Craig still doing that beside coaching/analyst duties) to deal with loaned out player = Fine

Publicly humiliating a 22yo player = Not fine

Never speaking to player you publicly humiliated after and then ignoring them for 12 months = Not fine

Youd have to show me a single instance of Tommy Wright doing anything remotely similar to what Callum Davidson done at Ibrox btw. We lost 4-0 and he blamed the result entirely on a 22yo losing the ball on the halfway line.

[Aitchy]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Doubting his ability and loaning him out if you dont think hes good enough = Fine

Leaving the loan manager (is Craig still doing that beside coaching/analyst duties) to deal with loaned out player = Fine

Publicly humiliating a 22yo player = Not fine

Never speaking to player you publicly humiliated after and then ignoring them for 12 months = Not fine

Youd have to show me a single instance of Tommy Wright doing anything remotely similar to what Callum Davidson done at Ibrox btw. We lost 4-0 and he blamed the result entirely on a 22yo losing the ball on the halfway line.

I am in agreement that Davidson shouldn’t have publicly criticised him after the game at Ibrox, but don’t see why he would be calling him whilst on loan if he did not see a future for him at the club. 
 

Tommy was more media savvy in that he did not publicly name a player, but plenty of other things went on during his tenure regarding poor treatment of players that was completely out of order. 

[PSJ.84]

9 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

Doubting his ability and loaning him out if you dont think hes good enough = Fine

Leaving the loan manager (is Craig still doing that beside coaching/analyst duties) to deal with loaned out player = Fine

Publicly humiliating a 22yo player = Not fine

Never speaking to player you publicly humiliated after and then ignoring them for 12 months = Not fine

Youd have to show me a single instance of Tommy Wright doing anything remotely similar to what Callum Davidson done at Ibrox btw. We lost 4-0 and he blamed the result entirely on a 22yo losing the ball on the halfway line.

Being pedantic, it was only 2-0

[Aitchy]

15 minutes ago, pezza70 said:

Why was he frozen out but Bair has been given chance after chance?

Perhaps Bair has shown a good attitude in training? Perhaps Bair has actively listened to the coaches and tried to work on aspects of his game? Perhaps Bair has been a positive influence in the dressing room? 

Numerous reasons why he may have had more opportunities. 

[RandomGuy]

Just now, Aitchy said:

I am in agreement that Davidson shouldn’t have publicly criticised him after the game at Ibrox, but don’t see why he would be calling him whilst on loan if he did not see a future for him at the club. 
 

Tommy was more media savvy in that he did not publicly name a player, but plenty of other things went on during his tenure regarding poor treatment of players that was completely out of order. 

Its just me but i think he should be keeping up with any player out on loan, if theyre contracted.

At this stage, probably not, as its clear hes away. But he scored 4 goals in a game with 12+ months left on his deal and the manager doesnt even text him "well done"?

Thats more making sure someone knows theyre not welcome than simply thinking they dont have a future at the club. Nobody knew/knows how he'd progress as confidence is a major thing to footballers.

John Mahon also talked about struggling/feeling like an outsider and being happy to be back at Sligo "playing for a manager i trust and will give me chances".

Tommy Wright rumours arent anything id heard before?

On Bair, i think hes played because there was literally nobody else due to Kanes injury. I doubt he'll see many minutes now Rudden is in.

[Stumpy1949]

Does anybody know why the daily record printed this interview with a player playing in NI?

[templeofsaints]

51 minutes ago, Stumpy1949 said:

Does anybody know why the daily record printed this interview with a player playing in NI?

He's out of contract in the summer so presumably his agent is trying to get him noticed with a view to lining up a decent deal in the summer - whether with Linfield or not.

[saintgscot]

Well let’s just say if there is interest from America I may know who done that. 

[blueheaven]

I'm sure none of us are surprised by anything Eetu has said in that interview, but I am a bit surprised that he's come out and said it while he's still a Saints employee. I'm glad that he has said it, though.

Personally I thought in his few appearances for us he looked promising, but behind our other strikers and in need of instruction and development. So I can understand it being felt that he wasn't good enough to play for us at that point, but was there seriously no plan to develop him, mould him and encourage him? It just seems odd after the amount of time and money that was spent bringing him here. And the alarm bells become louder when you start to think about the fact that he's probably not the only player Davidson has treated this way. 

And whether he was good enough or not, can anyone honestly say with 100% certainty that he was worse than some of the other players Davidson has given more chances to?

Sure, he made that mistake against Rangers (which was nowhere near as bad as Davidson made it out to be) and maybe he "liked the ball more than he should have". But at least he actually touched the ball when he was on the pitch.

 

[blueheaven]

11 hours ago, Stumpy1949 said:

Does anybody know why the daily record printed this interview with a player playing in NI?

Because it's of interest to fans of a Scottish club?

[SaintJet]

14 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

He got told when he signed he'd be played off a flank beside a central striker, as thats how he played in Finland. 

He then played 200 minutes none of them in the role he was promised, got chucked up front alone v Rangers and then slaughtered by his manager randomly blaming him for a goal we conceded, and was completely dumped out the squad.

He then get punted on loan, and, at 22 and having moved country to play for us, was completely ignored to the point hes been away on loan for 12 months and the manager has never contacted him once.

You can argue about his ability if you want but that, especially just ignoring him once he was loaned out, is absolutely abysmal from the club and manager and shouldnt just be brushed away as "one of those things".

Honestly Random you need to stop. You have a hard on for battering Davidon at every turn. Vertain is proffesional football player- moving around the country, Europe and even the world is all part of that gig. If the boy was as good as you presume he wouldn't have been let go.

Move on and start getting back to moaning about the colour of Calum Davidson's shoes for f sake!

[Linky]

13 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

 

Tommy Wright rumours arent anything id heard before?

Richard Foster.

[Cagey]

36 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

Honestly Random you need to stop. You have a hard on for battering Davidon at every turn. Vertain is proffesional football player- moving around the country, Europe and even the world is all part of that gig. If the boy was as good as you presume he wouldn't have been let go.

Move on and start getting back to moaning about the colour of Calum Davidson's shoes for f sake!

Not sure a bout the statement " if he was as good as you presume he wouldn't be let go" It's Davidson we are talking about. How many players have come and gone in his tenure ?. How many of those have had more than a couple of starts for Saints. The money this incompetent has cost Saints is unbelievable. He won us a couple of trophies with Tommy's team but we have been pumped out of every competition .  Wright every year got us high up the league with £100 grand plus for every position plus Europe most years.

I hate to think what the profit and loss will be this season.

On Eetu I am not sure he would have made it with Saints with a decent manager but we will never know. I have my doubts..

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, SaintJet said:

Honestly Random you need to stop. You have a hard on for battering Davidon at every turn. Vertain is proffesional football player- moving around the country, Europe and even the world is all part of that gig. If the boy was as good as you presume he wouldn't have been let go.

Move on and start getting back to moaning about the colour of Calum Davidson's shoes for f sake!

Be fair and at least read what the guy's saying. He's not making the point that Eetu's a good player, he's making the point that the club's treatment of him has been poor.

[rik2304]

1 hour ago, SaintJet said:

Honestly Random you need to stop. You have a hard on for battering Davidon at every turn. Vertain is proffesional football player- moving around the country, Europe and even the world is all part of that gig. If the boy was as good as you presume he wouldn't have been let go.

Move on and start getting back to moaning about the colour of Calum Davidson's shoes for f sake!

 There huge problems with the club at the moment. On and off the field and they need to be highlighted to as many fans as possible because they won't find out about it otherwise as any local journalists are burying their heads in the sand.

 

[SaintJet]

53 minutes ago, rik2304 said:

 There huge problems with the club at the moment. On and off the field and they need to be highlighted to as many fans as possible because they won't find out about it otherwise as any local journalists are burying their heads in the sand.

 

Why is that? What journalist worth their salt wouldn't  try to uncover a story? What a load of nonesense!