babychunder Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) To Mainstand and Babychunder re Sky Deal I can understand why this myth has grown but there is no sinister clause guaranteeing SKY 4 Old Firm games although its often reepated as fact and the incomeptent Neil Doncaster failed to clarify. The current contract is running its course. A new contract is in advanced form but has not been signed. Sky cannot shape that contract in ways that unduly influence the rules of the league as that would fall foul of almost every European Brodacst directive and be open to UEFA and EBU sanction. What is in the contract is the very different clause that should there not be 4 Old Form games then Sky would pay less. It may amount to the same thing in practice but it is very different legally. Also worth noting that ESPN pay significant carriage charges to SKY and so they are competitors but also partners. Look mate, no offence intended to your good self but the chief of the SPL is on record saying that there is such a clause in the current TV deal and I choose to believe him rather than some anonymous poster I don't know. Of course if you can cite some source or other to support your point of view I'd take that into account, so far you haven't done so and is that because you don't have one, or you just realise that you were wrong and are willing to change your view? Here is the actual quote from Doncaster. But Doncaster said: "We’ve got a new deal starting this summer, which has yet to be signed. "The detail of the agreement is yet to be seen but, yes, the current contract has a clause which says Rangers and Celtic must play each other four times a season. "But that comes to an end at the end of this season." You said "There is no contracted clause requiring 4 old firm games as that cannot be guaranteed and a guarantee would constitute undue influence by the broadcaster." That is wrong and that's what I want you to acknowledge. Edited May 9, 2012 by babychunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1962 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Look mate, no offence intended to your good self but the chief of the SPL is on record saying that there is such a clause in the current TV deal and I choose to believe him rather than some anonymous poster I don't know. Of course if you can cite some source or other to support your point of view I'd take that into account, so far you haven't done so and is that because you don't have one, or you just realise that you were wrong and are willing to change your view? Here is the actual quote from Doncaster. But Doncaster said: "We’ve got a new deal starting this summer, which has yet to be signed. "The detail of the agreement is yet to be seen but, yes, the current contract has a clause which says Rangers and Celtic must play each other four times a season. "But that comes to an end at the end of this season." You said "There is no contracted clause requiring 4 old firm games as that cannot be guaranteed and a guarantee would constitute undue influence by the broadcaster." That is wrong and that's what I want you to acknowledge. Now I dont know anything about TV contracts but I know Soulful does and would suggest he knows more than most. Also my guess he knows a lot more than Clown Docaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryangordon86 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Now I dont know anything about TV contracts but I know Soulful does and would suggest he knows more than most. Also my guess he knows a lot more than Clown Docaster. I know who I'd believe between Mr C and Doncaster. Put it that way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Well if he has inside knowledge and or a source then all it needs doing is to say so and I'll stand corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfulsaint Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just to clarify. I cannot show you the contract because I work for a rival broadcaster and so have no access to it. But I do have access to many similar contracts and under the terms of both UEFA and the EBU no broadcaster can unuly influence the outcome or distort the competition. I am aware that there is a very strong rumour that there is a smoking gun contract but I have major doubts. It's entirely possible that Doncaster was arguing the case to aid a Newco being fast tracked. Or more likely there is a governing clause that says that in the event of their not being four old firm games Sky would discount the deal. So you don't misunderstand guys I'd like the contract theory to be true and would be first to say sorry, as it would be another reason why Neil Doncaster should resign. Babychunder pm me if you want to discuss further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryangordon86 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't think it's a case of inside knowledge. Sky can't dictate that there will be 4 OF games, I believe that what's more likely is as Soulful says, less than 4x games results in less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Johnston Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Not for the first time in this thread, Ghostie (post #293) has got to the nub of the matter far better than I could, and explained why thousands of real football supporters all over Scotland will be walking away if Rangers get away with this. The only thing I would add to his summary is this: what has sunk our Ibrox friends even lower in my estimation (if that is possible) is their shameless refusal to apologise for what they have done, and their repeated attempts to blame anyone/everyone else. Scobby_SJFC - of course we know the deck is loaded against the 'wee teams', it always has been and always will be, but we can live with that - in fact, it's what makes beating the OF so sweet when it happens. But now all of their appalling past behaviour is becoming exposed, do they say sorry? Do they hell. No - they argue that they are so big and so powerful that the rules will have to be broken/bent/changed to allow them to continue in the SPL. That simply cannot be allowed to happen, and that's why I am really saddened that neither our own Chairman, nor any of the other SPL Chairmen, has as yet broken ranks to say "enough is enough - you're out". Instead, they are all waiting to see what transpires, in the hope that if they wait long enough, HMRC or someone else will make the decision for them. Come on, Mr Brown. Time to speak out and show some leadership. This is your chance to make yourself, and our club, a byword for decency, sportsmanship and justice. Edited May 9, 2012 by Percy Johnston typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Rourke Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 In the short term interests of our club I don't blame the Chairman for keeping his own counsel pending Sunday's game. When the time is right.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevensan Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Look mate, no offence intended to your good self but the chief of the SPL is on record saying that there is such a clause in the current TV deal and I choose to believe him rather than some anonymous poster Funny, that is exactly the attitude the press took with Rangerstaxcase.com for saying all that nasty stuff about Whyte, and how it was going to end in liquidation... 99% c*** was what they were talking apparently... Given the rubbish Doncaster has come out with in the last week (his comparison of the newco to Crystal Palace and Plymouth who AGREED CVA's was brilliant) I think i would be believing the internet bampots over him any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Look mate, no offence intended to your good self but the chief of the SPL is on record saying that there is such a clause in the current TV deal and I choose to believe him rather than some anonymous poster I don't know. other four times a season. Really, after all that has happened?? You do know who SS is I take it? Any argument he presents will be well informed I assure you (regardless of the tag line of his show ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranmere Saintee Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Really, after all that has happened?? You do know who SS is I take it? Any argument he presents will be well informed I assure you (regardless of the tag line of his show ) I am beginning to wonder if he is really Neil Doncaster as he appears to be the only person who believes a word that man says I would even trust the Sun more than him to tell the truth!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Bru Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Google for 4 old firm games tv contract and watch the hits roll in (some from reliable sources) Don't make me laugh. Tell me which are the reliable sources? All that there is in the first 2 pages is "newspapers", message boards and Wikipedia!! Reliable sources ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish i was Joe McGurn Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 I see that good old Ralph topping got a bit of a kicking from the William hill shareholders in regards to his annual bonus. They rejected it as they deemed it too expensive. Could this be the major sponsors who are looking to walk away from sponsoring the league/ cups that he said all this negative talk is doing Scottish football damage. Maybe he should get his own house in order before trying to solve others problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Bru Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Just to clarify. I cannot show you the contract because I work for a rival broadcaster and so have no access to it. But I do have access to many similar contracts and under the terms of both UEFA and the EBU no broadcaster can unuly influence the outcome or distort the competition. I am aware that there is a very strong rumour that there is a smoking gun contract but I have major doubts. It's entirely possible that Doncaster was arguing the case to aid a Newco being fast tracked. Or more likely there is a governing clause that says that in the event of their not being four old firm games Sky would discount the deal. So you don't misunderstand guys I'd like the contract theory to be true and would be first to say sorry, as it would be another reason why Neil Doncaster should resign. Babychunder pm me if you want to discuss further Totally agree. The man has been talking down the possibility of a decent TV contract and should go NOW. He should be taking an unbiased position and selling the SPL to TV as an attractive contract, with or without newco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfulsaint Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 I see that good old Ralph topping got a bit of a kicking from the William hill shareholders in regards to his annual bonus. They rejected it as they deemed it too expensive. Could this be the major sponsors who are looking to walk away from sponsoring the league/ cups that he said all this negative talk is doing Scottish football damage. Maybe he should get his own house in order before trying to solve others problems. Yes great side story old Ralph is being pilloried by shareholders for excessive remuneration. The PM David Cameron has vowed to act on tax loopholes and instructed HMRC to tackle the misuse of offshore trusts. Nae luck Ralph may have to resign the chair of SPL too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Haven't had time to read this whole thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I see Peter Lawell has now said, from Celtic's perspective: "I am sure our supporters understand that these developments are receiving our full focus and attention. I can also give an assurance that we will communicate further and directly with our supporters at the appropriate time." Full story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18018475 It would be good to get some sort of similar statement from the St Johnstone board, who have been worryingly quiet of late. I've written to Steve Brown to express my own concerns, as it seems others have, and have had no reply. I don't expect a personal reply, but I do think that, sooner rather than later, the club needs to offer some sort of communication to the supporters as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Johnston Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Like you, BH, I didn't really expect a personal reply to my letter from the Chairman (though it would have been nice to even get a quick call or e-mail) but you're right, some sort of statement for the benefit of all supporters would be welcomed. I had planned to keep my own views quiet, but it was the ominous silence from the club after 10 days which prompted me to make my letter "Open" (post #87 on this thread for those who have lost the will to live during this saga). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Really, after all that has happened?? You do know who SS is I take it? Any argument he presents will be well informed I assure you (regardless of the tag line of his show ) SS and I have discussed this privately and (i think) we're agreed that there is such a clause in the contract, caveated in such a way as to allow the broadcaster to reduce the payment if four old firm games do not take place. So Donkey-casters statement is technically correct although he does not mention the caveats. SS is quite correct that to directly mandate such a requirement would not be allowed by the governing bodies. Regular readers will recall me arguing on the Ibrox Latest thread that the TV payments would be reduced to 25% of what they are currently if the old firm games weren't involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 I am beginning to wonder if he is really Neil Doncaster as he appears to be the only person who believes a word that man says I would even trust the Sun more than him to tell the truth!! You're a mod, FFS. Look me up in the BB's database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Funny, that is exactly the attitude the press took with Rangerstaxcase.com for saying all that nasty stuff about Whyte, and how it was going to end in liquidation... 99% c*** was what they were talking apparently... Given the rubbish Doncaster has come out with in the last week (his comparison of the newco to Crystal Palace and Plymouth who AGREED CVA's was brilliant) I think i would be believing the internet bampots over him any day. Errr....I believed RTC from quite early on, from the point where executed copies of the various Rangers contract documents were posted on his website. I don't dispute that ND is a bit of a clown either; but he's not going to come out with a great big public porkie about a clause that doesn't exist, now is he? That would be a resignation / firing issue for someone in his position. And yeah, you're right, there are a lot of bam pots on the Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Read thread. Head hurts. Sign Riordan, vote yes for Newco in the SPl, welcome to planet Earth. Their is not a single, solitary chance on God's good green earth that anyone called Brown will listen to the fans over the bank manager. Right? Wrong? I dunno. COYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calypso Kid Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Read thread. Head hurts. Sign Riordan, vote yes for Newco in the SPl, welcome to planet Earth. Their is not a single, solitary chance on God's good green earth that anyone called Brown will listen to the fans over the bank manager. Right? Wrong? I dunno. COYS Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY5565 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 what ever the out come for Rangers future, the colateral damage has been done and will take a long time to heal. Fans who dont support Rangers and some teams who have never been in the same league against Rangers are the victims. find it hard to understand why people will want to boycotte Saints playing in Perth against a team other than Rangers,and live in Perth. good luck in what ever you do, anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calypso Kid Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 what ever the out come for Rangers future, the colateral damage has been done and will take a long time to heal. Fans who dont support Rangers and some teams who have never been in the same league against Rangers are the victims. find it hard to understand why people will want to boycotte Saints playing in Perth against a team other than Rangers,and live in Perth. good luck in what ever you do, anyway As mentioned, this isn't an issue exclusive to Saints. There is discontent within all SPL supports. People feel strongly about shelling out thousands of pounds to follow and watch a rigged competition. Fairly straightforward stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY5565 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 ok, can understand and respect their principals, but how a person could resist not going to watch their club when they live in the same city/town i.e; Ghostie and others...and the rigged SPL isnt some thing new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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