Hubands House Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Scobby mate it'll be a lot more tha 100-150 saints fans and accross the league it will be in the 1000,s.. I am not gonna try to convince ANYONE that they should do what some of us are saying we are gonna do. We are nearly all adults and as such everyone is capable of making there own decision. My own personal stance is based simply on the fact that I want no part of a system that allows members to run up debts and on the back of that, secure trophys, only to be able to dump the debt when the time to pay the piper arrives and be welcomed back into the league with a token slap on the wrists. For me this is simply UNACCEPTABLE on every level. As for "the future of St.Johnstone football club" I recall our team recently spending 7 years in the fizzy pop league, with no Old Firm matches, no TV deal and no SPL handouts. We survived easily because the club was run on a simple tenet...Live within your means.. I would happily accept a less skillfull team in a lower league . For me, being a St.johnstone fan is not about winning ( although obviously winning is great). It's about being part of a well run,family club who believe in fairness and sporting integrity. If the club ( for the sake of money which we have proved we can live without) decide to abondon these tenets then I have to re-assess where I stand. At this point that reassessment will see me walk away. Please don't think I have not thought long and hard about this. Should the worst come to the worst I am giving up a huge part of my life and it will break my heart to the point I suspect tears will be shed but I cannot and will not be involved in this farce that seems to be moving rapidly towards us.. SPOT ON... I nearly had tears running down my puss at parkhead that day in the final.. But accepted it was only a game won fair and square, and we shall have more finals along soon. Now we know they may have won that final and others in NOT a fair and square fashion,it,s a scandel and to think chairmen(some) would like to continue with the status quo. I respect your stance gord, and glad i,am 4000 miles away and don,t have to make a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy rhodes fancy watch Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Every league game rangers have played ,every team they have knocked out of cups , every league placing they have had is in question here . if they are guilty of irregular payments and non payment of tax they have cheated all clubs in scotland and beyond . They have also played players that they have not paid for which is also cheating , they also owe millions to people and businesses worldwide but hey we might miss their fans next season so lets keep them in !. . . . . . If they dont at least need to re apply for sfl league status as a newco then i am done with scottish football . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE LARK SAINT Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I don't understand why there is so much debate about this. Liked the original post, sums up to an extent a lot of peoples feelings on this issue. But.. why should we let that have any bearing on renewing season tickets or going back to games. We're all St. Johnstone supporters. If we're going to come together for any reason it should be for the good of the club, not to put our chairman in a position which is financially disastrous for our club either way (loss of tickets or loss of rangers & potential tv money). We can rally against the SPL all we wish, promise to boycott the deathstar etc. We surely have more bargaining chips than our support for our local club and our season tickets.. It seems almost pathetic to me. Cutting noses off to spite faces I for one agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calypso Kid Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 It's a really emotive subject, that's part of the problem. These guys will take football supporters for a ride. I personally wouldn't want to ram my opinion down anyone's throat, I simply wanted to gauge the feelings of good football people, who we all are. It's really important when deciding on what your stance is that we all fully understand what's actually going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 To Mainstand and Babychunder re Sky Deal I can understand why this myth has grown but there is no sinister clause guaranteeing SKY 4 Old Firm games although its often reepated as fact and the incomeptent Neil Doncaster failed to clarify. The current contract is running its course. A new contract is in advanced form but has not been signed. Sky cannot shape that contract in ways that unduly influence the rules of the league as that would fall foul of almost every European Brodacst directive and be open to UEFA and EBU sanction. What is in the contract is the very different clause that should there not be 4 Old Form games then Sky would pay less. It may amount to the same thing in practice but it is very different legally. Also worth noting that ESPN pay significant carriage charges to SKY and so they are competitors but also partners. Soulful that is a point that I think Doncaster should be clarifying, He has stated that there is a get out claise in the new contract he has never mentioned that it could be a reduction in the money paid. It is obviously in the pro Rangers camps interests to continue with this line of thought, that no Rangers spells no tv money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havana Saint Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Every league game rangers have played ,every team they have knocked out of cups , every league placing they have had is in question here . if they are guilty of irregular payments and non payment of tax they have cheated all clubs in scotland and beyond . They have also played players that they have not paid for which is also cheating , they also owe millions to people and businesses worldwide but hey we might miss their fans next season so lets keep them in !. . . . . . If they dont at least need to re apply for sfl league status as a newco then i am done with scottish football . Spot on. Everyone has their opinion and that is what is great about forums. However the scale of Rangers wrongdoing cannot be questionned. It is sin upon sin and crime upon crime. How much of the unpaid tax could have been put towards the NHS, education, public services etc? This is not about Rangers bashing, they have simply behaved appallingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Johnston Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I'm not surprised that opinions are mixed. Some people (such as Ghostie, ryangordon, Calypso, Havana, Harry Curran, me, etc) could be classed as 'hard-liners' who simply won't go back if there is a Rangers stitch-up. Some (like Das Rave and The Inspiration) are 'hard-liners' in the other sense - willing to support Saints forever and always, no matter what degree of indignity is inflicted on our team by the shameless bullies. Both of these stances are worthy of respect and I'm not going to criticise anyone for the personal choices they make. We all share two things - (a) a love of Saints and ( a sense of contempt for Rangers and their closeted supporters in the football establishment and (most of) the media. I honestly believe there are many hundreds of our core support (some have already posted on this thread but lots more will be reading it) who haven't yet decided what to do. My worry (as expressed in my original letter to the Chairman) is that if diehards like me are prepared to walk away, logic says that a considerable number of the currently undecided will do likewise - or, at best, will be disillusioned enough to pick and choose what games they attend. Either way, attendances both at McDiarmnid and elsewhere will drop even more, leaving clubs like ours with even fewer resources to try to 'compete' in an ever-more corrupted league. One or two people on here have criticised me because my proposed actions will hurt Saints financially. Do you think I don't realise that? I would love to express my concern in a less destructive way, but given that assorted SPL Chairmen keep telling us that it's all about money rather than principles, the only sanction I can think of that might make them listen is if enough of us threaten to withhold our money. It only needs 5 SPL Chairmen to vote against newco waltzing back in. Steve Brown should be one of the 5. If anyone can suggest a more effective way for me to persuade him to take that stance, then please suggest it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mc Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 MM. I can be a bit fast off the keyboard with retorts and sometimes with no thought behind it. Percy wrote a very articulate letter IMO. Think all us saints fans are on hot tin coals with Europe so close. Sorry if you caught my early morning, pre- coffee bad mood. Can i get an apology for being called super saint earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denzil Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Just had a thought... What sponsors will seriously want to be associated with a corrupt league where tax evasion and cheating are condoned? Hardly good PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY5565 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Just had a thought... What sponsors will seriously want to be associated with a corrupt league where tax evasion and cheating are condoned? Hardly good PR. corruption pays, so i assume some body greedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Apologies to Andrew and The Mystery Man. Sometimes I can be a bit of an aggressive dickhead who has little regard to others. Apology accepted with thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calypso Kid Posted May 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Just had a thought... What sponsors will seriously want to be associated with a corrupt league where tax evasion and cheating are condoned? Hardly good PR. Dark arts are at work in this one, it would be spun to minimise both exposure and impact. To me the whole charade is a false economy. This is the perfect opportunity for more equity, if we sign up to this we'll be slitting our own throats. Remember, this mob were actively seeking to dump Scotland not so long ago and were insistent that the SPL would flourish without them. They are charlatans, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYellowBox Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Any clause Sky would have in their contract regarding the OF games is only there due to their constant desire to up sticks and go south. Had it not been for that, it wouldn't be there. By the fact that Scottish football needs the tv deal and the tv deal needs 4 OF games, then it stands to reason that Rangers or Celtic could never be allowed to finish outside the top 6 or be relegated. How could that ever be considered a competitive and fair league. Like many, I am disgusted and a Newco would be the straw that breaks.... Of the 11 other clubs, realistically 7-8 could be relegated if they were to have a bad season. What would they do? Cut their cloth, just the same as they would have to do with a newco. With the drive to financial fair play etc, UEFA would hammer the SPL if we allowed Rangers back in. If Italy, Spain or England tried it, they would probably get away with it, but we are just Scotland, we would be hammered and made an example of. How would we as Saints fans feel if we were relegated next year on the back of a defeat to Rangers, while we cut our cloth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null vier Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Any clause Sky would have in their contract regarding the OF games is only there due to their constant desire to up sticks and go south. Had it not been for that, it wouldn't be there. By the fact that Scottish football needs the tv deal and the tv deal needs 4 OF games, then it stands to reason that Rangers or Celtic could never be allowed to finish outside the top 6 or be relegated. How could that ever be considered a competitive and fair league. Like many, I am disgusted and a Newco would be the straw that breaks.... Of the 11 other clubs, realistically 7-8 could be relegated if they were to have a bad season. What would they do? Cut their cloth, just the same as they would have to do with a newco. With the drive to financial fair play etc, UEFA would hammer the SPL if we allowed Rangers back in. If Italy, Spain or England tried it, they would probably get away with it, but we are just Scotland, we would be hammered and made an example of. How would we as Saints fans feel if we were relegated next year on the back of a defeat to Rangers, while we cut our cloth? How would we feel if Lee Wallace hits the winner on Sunday and stops us qualifying for Europe? The bastards haven't paid for him yet!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
541ntees Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 im the 1st to get on at rangers but ami right in thinking they are up todate with the payments on wallace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 im the 1st to get on at rangers but ami right in thinking they are up todate with the payments on wallace? Yup! There next payment due for Wallace is not until next month... will they pay it though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
541ntees Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Yup! There next payment due for Wallace is not until next month... will they pay it though? nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yup! There next payment due for Wallace is not until next month... will they pay it though? Will the Administrators ALLOW them to pay it. If not then Rangers will be defaulting and/or reneging on their contractual commitment so what is the status of the transfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Will the Administrators ALLOW them to pay it. If not then Rangers will be defaulting and/or reneging on their contractual commitment so what is the status of the transfer? As in most issues surrounding Rangers at the moment....'who knows' would be my guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 As in most issues surrounding Rangers at the moment....'who knows' would be my guess Or the SPL will change the rules overnight so The Mighty Gers are happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scobby_SJFC Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 SPL has been corrupt for years and just find it bizare why everyone now is up in arms about it. Is it fair Rnagers and Celtic get the most money? no but people still go to watch the uneven playing field in its current state. Motherwell were in admin and fialed to pay players/staff/companies money owed yet nobody really kicked up stink about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 SPL has been corrupt for years and just find it bizare why everyone now is up in arms about it. Is it fair Rnagers and Celtic get the most money? no but people still go to watch the uneven playing field in its current state. Motherwell were in admin and fialed to pay players/staff/companies money owed yet nobody really kicked up stink about that Your are simply not getting this are you.. Firstly, ADMIN.. Now admin is not a problem, there are rules in place for all clubs and these are applied. A CVA is arranged and at least some debt is paid. If Rangers exit admin through a CVA ( as all other clubs have) I will be delighted and will continue to attend SPL matches. It's liquidation and new company stuff that is seen as the problem. It is completly wrong that a football club ( in this case Rangers) should be allowed to fold completely thus avoiding their debt in it's entirity and then simply waltz back to where it was previously. As for the league being corrupt, yes you are correct in most of what you say but the top two clubs money is generated mostly by themselves and their supports which dwarfs the rest of us and they PAID their bills ( or so we thought) There is nothing anyone can do about that, that's life and while it can be frustrating, they had done nothing wrong.. That has now changed dramaticaly and we find that Rangers, even with their huge support, great sponsorship deals, SPL help ( via the lions share of league money) and owners dealing with financial shortfalls still felt the need to simply spend more money that they had and to try and cheat the taxpayers out of vast sums of money which they diverted to their team. Now they have been caught red handed..And any decent person would hope that they were severely punished but it seems that this may not be the case and there-in lies the crux of this situation. They cheated, they got caught and they MUST be punished both as a warning to others and also because cheats must no be allowed to prosper.. If the SPL allows them to remain in the league after everything they have done it shows that they are above the laws of the league and NO-ONE should be above the laws , NO-ONE should be bigger than the league itself..If the SPL in their wisdom decide that Rangers ARE bigger than the league it makes the whole thing pointless ( for me anyway) I hope this goes some way to explaining how I see this situation Scobby.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abernethy Saint Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Whatever they do, whatever they say, however they vote. COYS. Life's too short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Oh no there's not Google for 4 old firm games tv contract and watch the hits roll in (some from reliable sources) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDY5565 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 corruption = negociations = deal = buisness and buisness is what makes the world function. what is new? Transparence! N.O.W. and RFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.