Plastered Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Excellent post BH. Others have also posted evidence showing that The Ibrox mod do not automatically benefit non OF clubs. I fail to understand why Steve Brown would be gagging to have them back in the top league. Just look at the success of Saints in the H-un free era. Who wouldn't sacrifice the ugly ones for that? And most importantly - the supporters benefit, it is like having a weight lifted from the shoulders knowing that we have another season to relish. The competition throught the league has been much better. Sure Celtic will win the league, but what is the difference to Ranger or Celtic guaranteed to win the league. The difference is we are not drowned in OF media b0ll0cks, and some notice is paid to the rest of the teams, which are otherwise just there to make up the numbers . It still annoys me that it took unprecedented support action to force clubs to vote them into the bottom league. Perhaps there was fear of financial disaster as the time, but not any more. Look at the national team, now better placed then they have been for years, but you can bet if they were still cr@p, it would have been because The Rangers were dumped into the bottom league. Another myth crushed for those that care to look. All chairmen/women should look at what has been achieved over the last few years, clubs sorting out their finances, the perceived notion that all clubs need The Rangers has been well and truly banished in reality, yet still believed by those who wish to remain blind. These are more stable, more entertaining times than those 10 years ago before the smelly stuff started hitting the fan. And isn't it just brilliant not having 4 authorised, legal and hyped up sectarian festivals every season, where supporters are virtually encouraged to display bigotry and hatred, which the Scottish media then claim is the greatest football rivalry in the world. It is nothing of the sort. It is sickening and unbelievable in the 21st century. Scottish football is better without The Rangers in the top division. sixties saintee, blueheaven, Oldermoresensiblepack and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysaint Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Scottish football is better with chair women! name me one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Anne budge at Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldermoresensiblepack Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Leanne whatsername at hibs formally motherwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejksjfc Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Our biggest crowd this season was v Dundee Utd as it was last season (I think) our record attendance at McD ( and as it happens at Muirton) is v Dundee so why then would we want to welcome "Rangers" back into our division when the chances are that it would be one of these two teams that would move out to accommodate them? I find everything that surrounds the old squirm absolutely reprehensible whereas the banter we can have with the 2 minor Tayside teams is quite entertaining Oldermoresensiblepack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldermoresensiblepack Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Our biggest crowd this season was v Dundee Utd as it was last season (I think) our record attendance at McD ( and as it happens at Muirton) is v Dundee so why then would we want to welcome "Rangers" back into our division when the chances are that it would be one of these two teams that would move out to accommodate them? I find everything that surrounds the old squirm absolutely reprehensible whereas the banter we can have with the 2 minor Tayside teams is quite entertaining Well said ( or typed in this case ) would rather a soapdodger derby than the bigotfest that is sellick v ra gers and it gives us 4 home derby's a season if the 2 dundee teams are in our league. ( which their not ) Much better for us financially i would think. Edited June 3, 2015 by Oldermoresensiblepack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejksjfc Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 The longer "Rangers are out of the league the more likely the TV companies are to come to the conclusion that Scottish football DOES NOT need a strong old squirm. CMON The Hibees............Falkirk...............QOS...........The Fakes..............Dumbarton..............Alloa..............Raith............Livi................and Motrton (I think Ive got the setup of the championship next season right) Andy from Barrow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOODLUM65 Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Scottish football is better with chair women! name me one WHOOPS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Rangers got punished (quite rightly,but un-precedented) and were banished to the 3rd div. I agree with your overall point but please forgive my slight pedantry here as I always feel the need to point out that when "Rangers" found themselves in the Third Division it was certainly not by way of punishment. Neither were they relegated (which is something else I often hear said). They were a brand new club, who had never before competed in the Premier League, and as such the only possible and ethical entry point for them into our league system was via the bottom end. Far from being punished, they were in many ways given preferential treatment, as at that point they had no previous accounts, no players, and no name - yet they were allowed to leapfrog other non-league clubs who were not even invited to apply. Had they been refused entry to the Third Division on the basis that they were essentially non-existant as a footballing entity, where would "Rangers" be now? gingermunkie, Kevin James Is On Stilts, Cagey and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastered Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 If they had been refused entry (as the rule book states) I suspect another club in the league would have been bought out, and converted to The Rangers, much in the way that Airdrie converted Clydebank. They would have had more difficulty claiming the trophies of the past, but it wouldn't have stopped them carrying on as if nothing had changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldermoresensiblepack Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I agree with your overall point but please forgive my slight pedantry here as I always feel the need to point out that when "Rangers" found themselves in the Third Division it was certainly not by way of punishment. Neither were they relegated (which is something else I often hear said).They were a brand new club, who had never before competed in the Premier League, and as such the only possible and ethical entry point for them into our league system was via the bottom end. Far from being punished, they were in many ways given preferential treatment, as at that point they had no previous accounts, no players, and no name - yet they were allowed to leapfrog other non-league clubs who were not even invited to apply. Had they been refused entry to the Third Division on the basis that they were essentially non-existant as a footballing entity, where would "Rangers" be now? Thats exactly it BH. They should have started in the west of scotland league and started from there. The eidjits who ru(i)n our game were terrified that the establishment club would not make it through had them placed in the 3rd div. hoping that they would be back soon. Unfortunately for them the The will have to spend an other year ( hopefully more ) in the championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastered Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) With regard to sponsorship (or lack of), I can see only 2 reasons why Doncaster failed to get any sponsorship: 1) He was far too incompetent. 2) He deliberately put off sponsors saying the league was devalued and worthless without The Rangers, in the hope that the whole setup would come close to collapse, whereupon the mighty Rangers would come galloping to the rescue by being sent straight to the top division to save us all. Edited June 3, 2015 by Plastered ex-montrosesaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 With regard to sponsorship (or lack of), I can see only 2 reasons why Doncaster failed to get any sponsorship: 1) He was far too incompetent. 2) He deliberately put off sponsors saying the league was devalued and worthless without The Rangers, in the hope that the whole setup would come close to collapse, whereupon the mighty Rangers would come galloping to the rescue by being sent straight to the top division to save us all. Both. ex-montrosesaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hopefully that will bear fruit in the seasons to come & a lot of them will have them as their first team & not their second team like you Johnny. THAT IS QUITE INSULTING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babychunder Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'll haud the jackets.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think we have to accept that many clubs (possibly including Saints) would never have voted against Rangers being admitted to the SPL were it not for the huge groundswell of outrage from supporters. Us fans effectively forced our clubs into doing the right thing (which is something we should all feel very proud of). Still... In season 2011/12 (Rangers' last in existence), Saints' average attendance was 4,170. Last season (with no Rangers) it was 4,592. And that doesn't include the European matches which would push our average even higher. Since our promotion to the Premier League, none of our home games against Rangers have managed crowds of over 7,000. Only the European games have brought those seriously big crowds. In effect, the loss of two home European games per season would be a significantly bigger blow to our annual gate receipts than the loss of two home Rangers games per season (and the current league format would only guarantee us one home Rangers game per season anyway). IF WE ARE TO BELIEVE SAINTS WE HAVE MADE A LOSS ON OUR EUROPEAN VENTURES, I DONT SEE HOW BUT THAT WAS THE WORD, IF WE DID MAKE A PROFIT THEN I PRESUME IT WASNT VERY MUCH DUE TO THE HIGH COST OF THE AWAY LEGS. IF RANGERS CAME UP THIS SEASON AND MOTHERWELL WENT DOWN EVEN WITH 7K AT 2 HOME RANGERS MATCHES, IT IS STILL A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT MORE AND OUR AVERAGE CROWD GOING UP FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR I WOULD LIKE TO PUT DOWN TO OUR SCOTTISH CUP WIN REVIVING OUR SLEEPY SUPPORT. So it doesn't necessarily add up that Rangers in the league equals more people through the gates. The only thing that is truly proven to bring people through the gates is a successful Saints team. Put a strong Rangers back into the Premier League for the last three seasons and we would have finished lower down each season so would have less prize money, no annual European qualification, and possibly even no Scottish Cup win. Which means no boost in crowds and none of the accompanying rise in shirt sales etc. So I truly struggle to see why there would be extra revenue for Saints if Rangers were in the top flight. The only possible argument I can think of is that there may be more TV and sponsorship money to go around - but wouldn't Rangers themselves keep a lot of that money and use it to keep Saints (and everyone else) from attaining the success that we ourselves need to attract bigger crowds? I WOULD LIKE TO GET AHEAD ON OUR OWN MERIT RATHER THAN SOMEONES ELSES DOWNFALL AS YOU SUGGEST. BUT YOU ARE TALKING FROM A SELFISH STANCE (QUITE RIGHTLY) AND NOT ALL THE TEAMS OR THE LEAGUE COFFERS HAVE BENEFITED FROM THEIR DEMISE. I STILL SAY EVERY CHAIRPERSON WILL BE GLAD TO HAVE THEM BACK FOR THE MAIN REASON, MONEY, AND THAT IS WHAT COUNTS TO ALMOST EVERY CHAIRPERSON AND TO THOSE WHO RUN OUR GAME. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD, I AM NOT BUMMING RANGERS UP OR WANTING THEM BACK IN OUR LEAGUE, I AM JUST SAYING IT THE WAY I SEE IT AND THEY ARE CERTAINLY NOT MY SECOND TEAM AS AN ILL INFORMED ONE STATED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 They were a brand new club, who had never before competed in the Premier League, and as such the only possible and ethical entry point for them into our league system was via the bottom end. Far from being punished, they were in many ways given preferential treatment, as at that point they had no previous accounts, no players, and no name - yet they were allowed to leapfrog other non-league clubs who were not even invited to apply. Had they been refused entry to the Third Division on the basis that they were essentially non-existant as a footballing entity, where would "Rangers" be now? But that is not how the SFA see it, they are the same club according to them, so they were punished in the eyes of the SFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 THAT IS QUITE INSULTING Sorry if I upset you. I was just reading between the lines given that you were a passionate advocate that they should be elevated to top division regardless of league position. If you do not have an aleagence to that n club then please accept my apologies. fazman1977 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If a team does better than in a previous season, it is ALWAYS due to another team's downfall at some scale. Rangers created their own downfall, the same as Hamilton did this year by losing their manager and winning 1 point in 12 games pre-split, the same as Dundee United did by selling their best players in January, the same as Dundee did by losing to St Johnstone twice on the bounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry if I upset you. I was just reading between the lines given that you were a passionate advocate that they should be elevated to top division regardless of league position. If you do not have an aleagence to that n club then please accept my apologies. absolute garbage, where in my posts did I ever say or suggest I wanted them up there regardless of league position? I never even said I wanted them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Rangers, my team Norsaint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Best idea would be - One league of 2 playing each other 15 times at home and 15 times away. An SPFL slightly premiership with 16 teams and top 8 lower 8 divide the rest split into 2 x 12 leagues playing each other 3 times. That way the 2 who play each other 15 times get 25% each of tv plus their gate receipts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee john Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Best idea would be - One league of 2 playing each other 15 times at home and 15 times away. An SPFL slightly premiership with 16 teams and top 8 lower 8 divide the rest split into 2 x 12 leagues playing each other 3 times. The vast majority of fans want a 16/18 team league but it is the chairmen of the top league who vote against that. they want to play the top clubs more than once, in their eyes there is too much money to be lost by having a larger league. that is why we have never reverted back since 1975. That way the 2 who play each other 15 times get 25% each of tv plus their gate receipts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chips Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Fat Sally REPUTEDLY not been paid this month, most of first team released and waiting to install new management, where as its going to be a completely rebuild. I can only hope this armegeddon will last longer than next season as predicted ejksjfc and sixties saintee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancientsaint Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Fat Sally REPUTEDLY not been paid this month, most of first team released and waiting to install new management, where as its going to be a completely rebuild. I can only hope this armegeddon will last longer than next season as predicted I hear the Ibrox joiners have been ordered to build an Ark . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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