Saints v the ranjurs Sunday the 18th of February

[pezza70]

What worries me as @blueheavenjust stated right now where does our next win come from?

The recent run of results where we could of won but gave away stupid goals and dropping points in those may be the difference in staying up outright or back in the playoff again.

To think we potentially could of been in the top 6 after the Dundee game, yet we all know we are in a dogfight to stay up shows just how poor this league really is and it’s getting worse year after year.

Our team that finished third a few years back would stream roll all the current teams other then the OF and I really would fancy playing the current ugly sisters teams with their current rosters too.

[Setting Son]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

We've not kept a clean sheet in 2 months.

We won 1-0 at county 

[SaintJet]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

P.S. I can't quite get over all these pundits on Sportsound, Sportscene and the rest of it suddenly shouting from the rooftops that they're against VAR. They're the ones who used to spend hours endlessly analysing every refereeing error and moaning about the lack of technology. They're completely complicit in what we've ended up with.

I'll be honest I thought VAR would be a big help but its been a disaster! You are so right it just sucks the life out of the game and the decisions being made are laughable. There is no spontaneity in football now and it's one more thing to consider when going or not going to games.

I suspect a lot of the pundits and media feel the same.

I honestly hope a campaign is started by fans groups to get it binned!

[SaintJet]

5 minutes ago, Setting Son said:

We won 1-0 at county 

Whoa!!!

Don't tell me StatoRando has another one wrong?

[Setting Son]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

I can't remember ever seeing the East Stand look so empty for one of these games. And there were people filing out of it before Rangers' first penalty had even been kicked. I know people are always put off by games against this lot but our support seems particularly turned off at the moment. Between VAR and the way the team is being set up to play, I'm becoming sick of it myself and can see there being a real dip in season ticket sales next season even if we stay up.

For me it's not even about whether VAR is getting the decisions right or wrong. It's just the endless delays, the confusion, and the sudden penalties out of nowhere when the game has moved on to a completely different part of the pitch and as a fan in the stand you weren't even aware there'd been an incident. And on top of that there's all the players constantly going down and holding their heads to get the game stopped. It's just sucking all enjoyment out of the game and I don't think I've ever felt more disillusioned with going to Scottish football.

I thought the team were pretty much OK in the match and held our own for lengthy spells of it but as with most other games at the moment we had barely any attacking intent so as soon as we went 1-0 down we just looked done for. How many different strikers do we need to see struggle on their own up front before we realise that it's not the strikers that are the problem, it's the way the rest of the team behind them is set up.

Bored of complaining about Sprangler's absence from the team but it really is baffling, especially in a match like this one where we were calling out for a tackler in the middle to help out Phillips. I'm not really seeing what Connor Smith is bringing to the team and I personally think Stevie May would be a far better option in that advanced left-midfield position: he'd cover more ground, put in more tackles and support the striker more. Sidibeh and Kimpioka as a pairing didn't really work and I felt Nicky Clark should have been brought on earlier (in fact, I thought yesterday was a prime example of a game in which Chris Kane would have been a useful option).

At the moment I struggle to see where we're actually going to get our next win from and I'm worried that by the time we play Livingston in a couple of weeks we might have been sucked back into trouble.

Just generally feeling a bit fed up with all of it at the moment.

 

I’ve been going for 40 odd year home and away and I’ve stopped going . Haven’t enjoyed it for a few seasons . Think it was the Covid break that caused it . Social distanced get togethers with like minded Sainteees . No screaming at players and shouting abuse and all the other stuff that goes with watching a live game .Tried sitting in different parts of the ground but just don’t get that buzz anymore .

Absolutely no joy listening to that bile for 90 minutes from either of those 2 teams anymore that’s for sure . 
  like so many of my friends that used to go in the 80’s,90’s, 00’s we’re still sainteees but not diehards anymore . It’s funny cause I still like the away day outs but can’t be bothered with the depressing over priced football . 
      Maybe another Totten/Paton or Tommy/Callum management team will lure me back . 

[mike_gain]

54 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

We still hand teams far too many chances. Motherwell are the only side recently who havent managed over 20 touches in our box, with Dundee managing 51.

Camping your entire team within 40 yards of your goal and still relying heavily on your keeper making saves isnt good defending.

Touches in the box stat is useless without context. 

Fact is Motherwell got one important touch.....from an avoidable cross.

We are agreeing though, you can't camp for a whole game, while we are capable of defending and restricting teams without any threat we just invite pressure....quite often the opposition full back or wing back chucking a ball in.

Not saying we produce a defensive master class every match but we are more than capable of preventing goals, it's our lack of threat up top that is killing us (and to be honest has done for the last 3 seasons).

I think the management team's plan seems to be get pace up front to force opposition back a bit. Just hasn't quite clicked.....but it will have to soon.

 

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, SaintJet said:

Agree about all the empty spaces around both home stands and this is why I think we should just take the old firm dough and give up three stands to the away fans. It is what it is and we are never going to change that.

It would be really nice to see the club at least try to change it though. Have they ever really tried? I mean really, properly tried? They do next to nothing throughout the season to grow the support or improve the matchday experience. Kirsten Robertson called them out on all of this about four years ago and they've done nothing since then to take any of what she said on board. Other clubs have come up with actual plans for improving their attendances while Saints have just sat on their hands and moaned about it. As far as I can see, Saints' entire strategy involves blindly hoping that the same dwindling group of people will carry on paying their ever-increasing ticket prices forevermore.

Speaking of which, we must be just about due another public interview with Geoff Brown where he complains about Perth people not flocking along in their thousands to pay for the half-hearted, unappealing, over-priced product his business is serving up.

Can you even imagine what our home crowds and atmosphere would be like if it wasn't for the FCU?

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, SaintJet said:

Whoa!!!

Don't tell me StatoRando has another one wrong?

I get lots wrong, and remain confused why people think its amazing when it happens.

[Stumpy1949]

33 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

I get lots wrong, and remain confused why people think its amazing when it happens.

You get a lot more right than wrong. The fact that people know the ones you get wrong just proves that they are as interested as me. Keep up the good work. 

[andrew]

1 minute ago, Stumpy1949 said:

You get a lot more right than wrong. The fact that people know the ones you get wrong just proves that they are as interested as me. Keep up the good work. 

I agree with stumpy

[Radford 72]

3 hours ago, blueheaven said:

P.S. I can't quite get over all these pundits on Sportsound, Sportscene and the rest of it suddenly shouting from the rooftops that they're against VAR. They're the ones who used to spend hours endlessly analysing every refereeing error and moaning about the lack of technology. They're completely complicit in what we've ended up with.

One million percent this.

Arseholes.

[SaintJet]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

It would be really nice to see the club at least try to change it though. Have they ever really tried? I mean really, properly tried? They do next to nothing throughout the season to grow the support or improve the matchday experience. Kirsten Robertson called them out on all of this about four years ago and they've done nothing since then to take any of what she said on board. Other clubs have come up with actual plans for improving their attendances while Saints have just sat on their hands and moaned about it. As far as I can see, Saints' entire strategy involves blindly hoping that the same dwindling group of people will carry on paying their ever-increasing ticket prices forevermore.

Speaking of which, we must be just about due another public interview with Geoff Brown where he complains about Perth people not flocking along in their thousands to pay for the half-hearted, unappealing, over-priced product his business is serving up.

Can you even imagine what our home crowds and atmosphere would be like if it wasn't for the FCU?

I agree, it's frustrating that we haven't made more of our recent success. I think we are all aware that we have been short of good PR forever.

The one thing I will say however, is that if we are playing decent more fans turn out.

I'm like a broken record I know but we are where we are just now and it's all about securing our survival this season.

After that there really will have to be major improvement on the entertainment side. I found it interesting on MOTD that Danny Murphy made the point that Spurs fans love the football they are seeing despite similar position in the league contrasting that with Dave Moyes ponderous and pragmatic style of achieving results. Ultimitley fans crave great entertaining football but that's only palatable if your in the league you feel you should be.

[RandomGuy]

Football is all about emotion/moments/memories.

Id rather pay my money and suffer the trauma we did in the Gretna season, simply due to the sheer amount of excitement and the feeling you got every week as we chased them down, than pay money to watch us shitfest our way to 10th in the top flight with 38 draws a season.

You'll never get fans onside if youre not making them feel anything at games. How do you get mates, or kids/families, to games when all you can offer is sitting bored for 2hrs in a cold stadium knowing youll be lucky to celebrate a goal every 2nd trip.

[MySpazz]

Two pens ..... this OF thing is getting exicting, I had a home banker on a pen and a player sent off - that's usually how it goes.

Pray for the Super League and that the ugly sisters are invited to join it. 

Perhaps the Paddystinians could join the Saudi Super League as wildcards?

Edited February 19 by MySpazz

[R.B.B:- Adz]

7 hours ago, mike_gain said:

 

Not saying we produce a defensive master class every match but we are more than capable of preventing goals, it's our lack of threat up top that is killing us (and to be honest has done for the last 3 seasons).

Right you’ve got to be trolling now!! I’ll bite..

You did see Rangers’ first goal on Sunday didn’t you?

You did see the challenge for the penalty that led to Rangers’ second didn’t you?

You did see the state of Considine and McGowan for Shankland’s goal 2 weeks ago.

I mean I could go on…

We encourage and gift more goals than we prevent with our current clown show trio of McGowan Considine and Gordon.

Edited February 19 by R.B.B:- Adz

[mike_gain]

1 hour ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Right you’ve got to be trolling now!! I’ll bite..

You did see Rangers’ first goal on Sunday didn’t you?

You did see the challenge for the penalty that led to Rangers’ second didn’t you?

You did see the state of Considine and McGowan for Shankland’s goal 2 weeks ago.

I mean I could go on…

We encourage and gift more goals than we prevent with our current clown show trio of McGowan Considine and Gordon.

We limited Rangers to very few chances, they scored with pretty much first effort on target. No idea what you issue is with Considine's challenge yesterday. Every coach is asking for him to make that. He gets there he's a hero, we're talking inches...if that.

As for Shankland, come on. He's incredibly difficult to play against, doing what our Strikers don't. He'll do the same to defenders at the Euros.

But the point I'm making is if we don't reduce the pressure on our defence through play further up the field something gets through eventually. We will never have Defenders who make no mistakes. I think as a team we do stifle the opposition but they take more chances when they realise we're toothless.

Could be argued our wingbacks are nowhere near the standard we've had before but I think there's been a coaching issue for a while. Davidson got lucky with Kerr and Rooney, who forced opposition to play different.

Don't think he coached them to be the players they were...just took advantage of their qualities until opposition coaches figured us out.

 

[R.B.B:- Adz]

44 minutes ago, mike_gain said:

We limited Rangers to very few chances, they scored with pretty much first effort on target. No idea what you issue is with Considine's challenge yesterday. Every coach is asking for him to make that. He gets there he's a hero, we're talking inches...if that.

He didn’t need to dive in there!!

He gets caught too high, he’s slow to get back, Sterling is at an impossible angle, we had covering defenders, a good shot stopping goalkeeper and Sterling has taken a heavy touch. So many reasons why a manager would be shouting “Stand him up” rather than “Dive in!”

Maybe we just have vastly different views on defending. To me, sticking 11 bodies behind the ball for 90 minutes and blocking the pitch isn’t defending - defending is a skill that should be applied when defending is required, not by mass of bodies for a full game.

Steven Anderson was a defender, Frazer Wright was a defender.. Jason Kerr, Brian Easton, Dave Mackay. Guys understanding the art of defending - timing, positioning, tackling, winning battles. That’s defending. Not sticking three blocks of wood like Gordon, Considine and McGowan between the opposition and our goal.

Edited February 19 by R.B.B:- Adz

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, mike_gain said:

Davidson got lucky with Kerr and Rooney, who forced opposition to play different.

It wasnt luck, it was design by the previous manager.

Tommy Wright had Rooney signed before Davidson came in, and had Kerr, Gordon and McCart playing in the back 3 the same way Davidson did.

[Quarterback]

Cut a long story short. The players do not suit the system but the system is ok,  if the CBs are athletic and can cover the half zones effectively for wing backs to go forward. They should also be able to get forward with the ball and pass into midfield.
 Gowser does sometimes and can be effective. The other two like a sideways because they are pinned in or a long ball to the 2 new boys up front. Adama has been getting flick ins in the previous games but Rangers read that play and the ball was getting clipped into our danger zone which is the half space that we struggle to get to with pace, which means the wing backs spending time in that zone because of the reliance on them to help out the CBs, because of a lack of pace and creativity in playing the ball out. 
we basically play with 5 centre backs. We need to choose our best 3 and let them get on with it. Robinson proved himself in that position and can support and recover as can olufunwa who actually played well when gowser was away over Xmas. Kerr has also come in and looked mobile. I would say any of those three with one of the older boys organising and encouraging would be great. That will actually allow DJ, Carey or Fran to be played as wing backs and sprangler and Philips as foils left and right. They are both mobile and you have Connor as a possible back up. You are then free to drop Matt, Clark, Adama, SM into the 10 role and with any two for your 2 strikers. At the moment we are just so predictable and reliant on the fact we won our first game with Alex’s interim team and the trio had something to prove. That was great but we have to keep the momentum going because oppositions will always look at your last couple of games and set themselves up for it. Apologies, that wasn’t short🤣

[PSJ.84]

 

8 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

He didn’t need to dive in there!!

He gets caught too high, he’s slow to get back, Sterling is at an impossible angle, we had covering defenders, a good shot stopping goalkeeper and Sterling has taken a heavy touch. So many reasons why a manager would be shouting “Stand him up” rather than “Dive in!”

Tbf he’s caught so high because Carey loses it in a ridiculous position. I agree that it’s a daft challenge to make though. However, I am confused by your lambasting of Considine and McGowan week after week. Yes, they can be improved upon - and it’s something we need to do as early as the summer - but I think they’ve been fine for the most part this season. There’s more at play than conceding soft goals = shite centre halves.

 

[blueheaven]

Re the defence, I think all of the above observations are accurate and it's a little bit of everything that's resulting in the way we play. It's not either/or. On balance, McGowan-Gordon-Considine probably remains the most reliable back three we have, and that's why Levein is sticking with it. Hopefully they hold out until the end of the season and can remain just about solid enough for us to stay up. But we desperately need to refresh the defence in the summer with at least one centre-back who has some pace and mobility and is able to distribute the ball a bit better (someone who has a good level of experience but isn't 35).

All three of those guys are out of contract in the summer, plus we have Gallacher going out of contract and Robinson and K. Smith going back to their parent clubs, so we're probably looking at a complete overhaul of the defence over pre-season. Right now I'm not convinced any of the out-of-contract defenders are going to get offered new deals as Levein's probably going to want to bring his own guys in and possibly also change the system.

[Gekko]

Random thought, what about Sprangler as a centre back?

He's younger, doesn't seem to be injury prone, could step out when needed and can pick out a pass.

I know his best position is midfield but he seems comfortable at that end of the pitch, and let's face it, he's not getting a game in his natural position.

Just a thought.

[SaintJet]

8 hours ago, Quarterback said:

Cut a long story short. The players do not suit the system but the system is ok,  if the CBs are athletic and can cover the half zones effectively for wing backs to go forward. They should also be able to get forward with the ball and pass into midfield.
 Gowser does sometimes and can be effective. The other two like a sideways because they are pinned in or a long ball to the 2 new boys up front. Adama has been getting flick ins in the previous games but Rangers read that play and the ball was getting clipped into our danger zone which is the half space that we struggle to get to with pace, which means the wing backs spending time in that zone because of the reliance on them to help out the CBs, because of a lack of pace and creativity in playing the ball out. 
we basically play with 5 centre backs. We need to choose our best 3 and let them get on with it. Robinson proved himself in that position and can support and recover as can olufunwa who actually played well when gowser was away over Xmas. Kerr has also come in and looked mobile. I would say any of those three with one of the older boys organising and encouraging would be great. That will actually allow DJ, Carey or Fran to be played as wing backs and sprangler and Philips as foils left and right. They are both mobile and you have Connor as a possible back up. You are then free to drop Matt, Clark, Adama, SM into the 10 role and with any two for your 2 strikers. At the moment we are just so predictable and reliant on the fact we won our first game with Alex’s interim team and the trio had something to prove. That was great but we have to keep the momentum going because oppositions will always look at your last couple of games and set themselves up for it. Apologies, that wasn’t short🤣

Very Informative; the only thing that was missing from your summary was a  "skinny post" perhaps a "bubble screen" a few  "blitzes" maybe an "end around"!

I think sometimes part of the problem is everyone, and certainly the coaches tries to overthink a very simple game.

[blueheaven]

37 minutes ago, Gekko said:

Random thought, what about Sprangler as a centre back?

He's younger, doesn't seem to be injury prone, could step out when needed and can pick out a pass.

I know his best position is midfield but he seems comfortable at that end of the pitch, and let's face it, he's not getting a game in his natural position.

Just a thought.

He could probably do the job but I just don't think Levein wants him in the team, sadly.

I wonder if it's more likely we see Keltjens move back there next season. If Drey Wright recovers then he returns to RWB and Keltjens could potentially play RCB. Or does Keltjens move into Dan Phillips' role? Or maybe even move across to LWB?

 

[SaintJet]

4 hours ago, PSJ.84 said:

 

Tbf he’s caught so high because Carey loses it in a ridiculous position. I agree that it’s a daft challenge to make though. However, I am confused by your lambasting of Considine and McGowan week after week. Yes, they can be improved upon - and it’s something we need to do as early as the summer - but I think they’ve been fine for the most part this season. There’s more at play than conceding soft goals = shite centre halves.

 

I agree completley. I just don't see the point in constantally castigating players - especially these guys who might be no spring chickens but who week after week try to keep our defence tight whislt being over run by more accomplished sides. By association there a veiled snipe at the management team and it's completley pointless! I get some people don't like Craig Levein but at least let the season play out and see where we are.