Is Steve Brown Qualified / Should He Go

[slf]

Although what the club should do is contact either the college or Dundee uni. IT students usually require a software project in their final year.

This would be free. It gives a student a project they can work with an actual client rather than a pretend one as well.

The club get a free site. They would obviously need to get it hosted etc.

Worst comes to worst they don't need to use it if it's not quite up to scratch. The student could still go away and work on it after the project is over and the club could pay them some sort of fee if it is good.

Would save them a lot of ££.

Could the club think outside the box a bit.

For things like the new fire alarm system or the new air con they could think outside the box a bit for those type of things too imo.

Come to some sort of arrangement for say getting it at cost price in return for free season tickets for staff or certain amounts of hospitality etc. Just examples but I'd like to think the club do these kind of things already.

No way do we want a mental dundonian near our website !

[Tranmere Saintee]

So, go for a cheap option of using students and get a system with no back up for the inevitable bugs and no future enhancements, just so you can all whinge and moan when it collapses after a few weeks!!

[rik2304]

So, go for a cheap option of using students and get a system with no back up for the inevitable bugs and no future enhancements, just so you can all whinge and moan when it collapses after a few weeks!!

Good plan!

[jhq]

It will be one of SB's mates that got the job

Either that or the website designer was at Geoff's dinner and Steve didn't shake his hand. 

[PerthSeany]

So, go for a cheap option of using students and get a system with no back up for the inevitable bugs and no future enhancements, just so you can all whinge and moan when it collapses after a few weeks!!

Still cheaper than 10k? I work for a company who bought a system in excess of a few 100k and it is utterly useless and breaks on a weekly basis. Spending money doesn't guarantee a system that works any better.

We apparently can't afford players so why can we afford 10k for a website?

Edited November 3, 2014 by PerthSeany

[Tranmere Saintee]

Still cheaper than 10k? I work for a company who bought a system in excess of a few 100k and it is utterly useless and breaks on a weekly basis. Spending money doesn't guarantee a system that works any better.

So your company buys a system for over £100k and you expect Saints to get 1 for less than £10k?

[saintglenn72]

Although what the club should do is contact either the college or Dundee uni. IT students usually require a software project in their final year.

This would be free. It gives a student a project they can work with an actual client rather than a pretend one as well.

The club get a free site. They would obviously need to get it hosted etc.

Worst comes to worst they don't need to use it if it's not quite up to scratch. The student could still go away and work on it after the project is over and the club could pay them some sort of fee if it is good.

Would save them a lot of ££.

Could the club think outside the box a bit.

For things like the new fire alarm system or the new air con they could think outside the box a bit for those type of things too imo.

Come to some sort of arrangement for say getting it at cost price in return for free season tickets for staff or certain amounts of hospitality etc. Just examples but I'd like to think the club do these kind of things already.

 

Having worked in the maintenance sector for around 25 years, thinking out the box for air con and particularly the fire alarm simply does not happen!

These are necessities and costs a fortune. We have just done the fire alarm renewal in a large tenement in Edinburgh at the cost of £40k, so haud yer wheest and stick to stuff you know about instead of spouting rubbish.

 

So everyone moans about how crap the website is, but you would like to see a student design and manage it? That sounds like a top notch idea too!

 

Hosting and ongoing maintenance are the costly bits. Doubt a student would be able to accomodate that!

[PerthSeany]

So your company buys a system for over £100k and you expect Saints to get 1 for less than £10k?

No I don't expect.

I know it can be done. Ive known a few students who could certainly of done a much better Jon than who currently done the site at the moment anyway. Thousands of companies do exactly what I'm saying Saints should do. It's worked out fine for them on many occasions. You seem to have a serious problem with nearly everything I post? Give it a rest. I'm actually reasonably well educated when it comes to things IT related. Years studying for a degree help...

haud yer wheest he says because it's spouting rubbish?

Those two were simply examples from a long list of things? I'm aware how much these things cost. I'm not as dim as many seem to think. All I was saying is I'm sure there is supporters with businesses and trades willing to do things a bit cheaper etc for Saints if saints do them a favour in return?

Edited November 3, 2014 by PerthSeany

[saintglenn72]

Right folks, here's my notes (apologies for the length of it). I am sure Jamie will correct/assist me if I have noted anything wrong (taking minutes is not my strong suit!).

 

Bring the backlash.....

 

Questions for Q&A Session 30^th October 2014

Attending from the Club:

Steve Brown, Charlie Fraser, Roddy Grant, Tommy Wright, Beve Mayer

 

1.    How does the club propose to better engage with its customers/fans, in addition to the appointment of the additional staff recently?

 

This issue appears to be the catalyst to the appointment of Ross Cunningham, as quite a few of the points raised regarding communication and engaging with fans were stated to be in Ross’ role.

 

2.    Can the club clarify how the invitees to this event were selected and why the event has not been publicised to a wider audience?

 

It was clarified that each of the members of the Fans Forum Group were asked to invite 5 people. This is designed to cast the net wider and engage with more fans.

 

3.    Some areas of the support seem to think that there are a “Secret Seven”, and this invite-only session only perpetuates this rumour. Saints are seem as a “family club” and this type of engagement only seems to alienate the support  – does the club plan to extend an invite to all areas of the support to gain their thoughts and ideas?

There are plans to have more events of this type and to extend the net wider to ensure that all areas of the fanbase are covered. Already the club engage with disabled fans and the FFG is designed to target all areas of the fanbase, age, gender, location etc.

 

4.    Can the chairman list the specific areas of infrastructure which will be carried out and also the total cost of all this work either behind-the-scenes or customer facing?

 

**Note of expenditure as per my previous post**

 

There are currently 6 youth teams in place at the club, designed to create a pathway to the 1^st team if possible, hence the appointment of Alistair Stevenson. All clubs in Scotland see this aspect as essential, not only from developing their depth of squads and new talent, but also from the point of gaining compensation should players move on; which took us nicely onto the subject of Stevie May!

 

Both Steve and Tommy stated that the club were not actively trying to sell the player, and he did have a desire to extend his stay – the deal would have made him the highest paid player at the club. Tommy did state that May wanted to stay but thinks his agent may have had an influence over this, as is their job. Preston, Rotherham, Peterborough and 2 other unnamed English Championship clubs all offered for him. In the end they sold him for £800k (£400k to be paid now and £400k on 1^st August next year – due to financial fair play rules), with undisclosed and confidential add-ons for various aspects (presumably caps, goals etc.). Saints will also benefit if he is sold on in the future. They also stated that they could never stand in the way of a player who wishes to leave, and that the move will be good for the player’s development.

 

5.    Why were the club not better prepared to capitalise on the back of the cup final to encourage season ticket sales?

Steve fully admitted that the ticket office were not geared up to deal with season ticket applications during the Cup Final etc. Given that the ticket office handled 15,000 tickets sales, they were not in the position to issue or sell season tickets at the same time.

One attendee commented that his Group of fans (unnamed) had stated they did not wish any other correspondence from the club at that time as they were happy with concentrating on the Final.

I think the response from the club was more about the capacity of the ticket office rather than capitalising on the momentum of the Final.

 

6.    What is the target “player’s wages as a proportion of total turnover”? Is it currently too high, about right or too low? What are your plans to increase revenue?

Steve stated that currently the players wages are approx. 90% of “football-related” turnover (this does not include any non-football-related income). Steve then moved on to explain the potential effects of the FIFA financial fair play regulations which are probably coming into force during season 2016/17. Clubs will have to ensure that the wages represents no more than 70% of the footballing turnover, and this will represent its own challenges with regards both players’ wages and the generation of more footballing income.

 

7.    Does Tommy Wright have the full backing of the Board of Directors?

 

All stated he does (I would expect nothing less!), however in my opinion their body language at the meeting demonstrated that they do have a good strong working relationship. Steve stated that if Tommy wasn’t constantly asking for new players to improve the squad then he would be worried. Both Steve and Tommy stated that they were singing off the same song sheet.

 

The main point that I took from the meeting was that there is a very fine line in managing the finances of the club, hence the delays in getting the budget sorted etc. The impact of (The) Rangers, Hertz and Hibs not being in the league has understandably taken its toll on income, both in terms of gate receipts and TV revenue. Coupled with the financial commitments to get the club into the Elite league for the development squad(s) is in excess of 6 figures per annum. This is key to the club developing their own talent.

 

8.    Are the club working on identifying players to bring in during the January transfer window (assuming that the Chairman/Board will sanction this expenditure)

 

Tommy stated that he is always on the lookout for players to bring in, whether the funds are there or not. He acknowledged the lack of goals at this time, however he sees that McFadden and Graham will form a good partnership over time. With Macca out for approx. 10 weeks, it is the intention to bring Kane back in when his loan expires in January. Tommy also identified that he feels they need a quality wide player and an attacking midfielder to bolster the squad.

 

Tommy also noted his disappointment in not being able to sign Dunne over the summer, but he said that Stevenage’s demands for a fee of £175 were non-negotiable. Both the club and player were keen that he stay but Stevenage wanted to recoup their money, hence we was sold to Portsmouth.

 

 

9.    Where does the Chairman see the club in 5 years?

 

This meeting and some of the funding and expenditure figures detailed elsewhere only supports my assumption that running a football club is a fine line between success and failure. The Chairman is running the club as his father did – living within our means, however disappointing that may be to fans with regards to lack of investment in the squad. Steve did note that the stadium is now 25 years old and essential and extensive maintenance is required, coupled with the investment into gaining Elite status for the development squads.

 

I, for one, would rather have a club than a situation we are seeing at Rangers, Hearts and now it appears Motherwell! We are on an even keel and despite the results on the pitch, I see this more as a period of consolidation.

 

10.  Why was the decision to run the club without a GM so quickly reversed?

 

This comment was not put to the panel, however I would suggest that running a football club requires a GM as the Board cannot actually be expected to run the day-to-day aspects of the club/stadium etc.

 

11.  Point out to him some of the incentives other Premiership clubs are offering including 10 game season tickets. Motherwell/Dundee Utd are doing a deal for season ticket holders. Both clubs fans will be allowed entry into the opposition ground for a reduced price if they present a voucher from their own clubs season ticket book.

 

This was a good point of discussion for the Group, with various methods of facilitating this. The club state they are actively looking at this (again more for Ross’ role) and how they better incentivise the ticket sales. This news aside, Steve stated that he was also aware that the club should not seek to disadvantage season ticket holders by introducing any further incentives, so this would need to be looked at more in the near future.

 

The club are also open to any suggestions that the wider fanbase might have on how to achieve this.

 

 

12.  There is a general concern about our lack of fans but the clubs lack of advertisement and incentives to attend games is surely the biggest factor in why so little of the Perthshire community attend games. I am in Crieff regularly, would I know there is a Premiership club 17 miles along the road that does deals for families? No I wouldn't.

 

Again, this will form part of Ross’ role at the club, more advertising and engagement with fans.

 

It was also stated that in the wake of the Final, Roddy made 1,000 calls to people who purchased tickets to attempt to encourage season tickets sales. Small change I know, but it shows that at least they were kind of thinking about engaging with the cup final fans at that point. Whether or not they would have been able to accommodate another 1,000 ST sales at that time is another matter entirely!

 

13.  Why has the club not entertained online ticket sales? This is an area where the club could reach out to many more fans.

 

No specific answer was given but this may well be part of the website development.

 

14.  Why do the club not run competitions through its’ social media? This is a great way to interact with community and encourage more people to like St. Johnstone's page on Facebook and follow them on Twitter. More exposure the better.

 

Already we are seeing and improved service through social media sites since Ross’ employment on a permanent basis, it’s just a bit disappointing that he wasn’t there on the night. From what Steve was saying it is likely that this form of communication will be the norm not the odd few here and there.

 

15.  Why do the club not acknowledge your emails when you advise them of all the above 4 points via email?

 

Again, back to Ross’ appointment to resolve this issue. Presumably down to a lack of resources previously.

 

16.  Why did it take the club so long to get season ticket applications sent out? We were the last club in the league to send out the application packs. Will the club advertise season tickets better in the future?

 

As stated previously, this is purely down to ticket office staff capacity, however this is an area where Steve gave commitment that future season ticket renewals will be sent out earlier.

 

17.  I know of people who for one reason or another who have let their season ticket applications lapse in recent season, yet nobody from the club has ever got in touch with them to ask why, or to try and entice them back. Why is this? You talk about the playing budgets having to be reduced, due to poor attendances, yet very little has been done to a) keep loyal supporters attending or  entice new supporters.

 

Again this is incorporated into Ross’ new role and I understand he is tasked with contacting all fans who’s email the club have to discuss future requirements and cast the net wider. Again if the fanbase has any constructive ways the club can engage with current/future fans then please get in contact with them.

 

 

18.  Why did the playing budget take so long to be finalised? Surely a business should have different budgets set for different scenarios. It seemed as though the club put all its "eggs in the one basket" when it came to the Stevie May contract situation and were caught out. Would you handle the budget situation differently, if he had the chance again? Surely you can appreciate when the manager, club captain and several experienced players are in the media complaining about the lack of investment in the playing squad, this does not look good to supporters.

 

This has already been answered elsewhere. Steve did mention that the SPFL budget allocation is only notified to the club during late July for the season, and whilst some clubs gamble on buying/signing payers based on what they think their budget might be, if there was even a £50k shortfall in the allocated budget then this can have ramifications. He also stated that this situation was not ideal, and coupled with the lack of sponsorship for the league created more holes than money! He laid blame for the lack of sponsorship for the league firmly at Doncaster’s feet, and said there was growing unrest at lack of movement on this aspect.

 

19.  Why are you investing so much money in the youth set up? Your father said it was a waste of money a few years ago, what has changed? The likes of Stevie May came through the ranks when we did not have a "proper" youth set up in place, so why the need to strive for elite level?

 

See my previous text above. The youth setup is important both team-wise and financially for the club & country. When Geoff made the comment regarding the youth setup previously we had just been relegated in 2001/2 and it was far more difficult to maintain development squads and an extensive youth setup at this time. I appreciate the difficulties in maintaining even a full time squad following relegation and subsequent income drops.

 

20.  When will the official website be updated? Will an online ticketing facility be made avaliable?

 

As noted above.

 

21.  Other Points

 

-       Budget: same as last year, increased costs (players paid through the Summer), July 27^th fees noted by SPFL, no league sponsor.

-       Club will not/cannot spend what it does not have.

-       Cup Final DVD programmed to be release in time for Christmas (Ross Cunningham).

-       Delay in DVD because of consents being obtained from SFA etc.

-       Compulsory Purchase Order served by P&K Council on the morning of 30^th October.

-       Objections to this by the club, with period for objections closing end of November.

-       Notice of Servitude also served.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

_{Compulsory Purchase Order served by P&K Council on the morning of 30^th October.}

 

_{I am assuming fro the North Stand????}

 

_{Notice of Servitude also served.}
 

_{For a legal luddite, what is this?}

[PerthSeany]

I was wondering what the purchase order was for. I forgot about the whole North stand thing.

[saintglenn72]

_{Compulsory Purchase Order served by P&K Council on the morning of 30^th October.}

 

_{I am assuming fro the North Stand????}

 

_{Notice of Servitude also served.}

 

_{For a legal luddite, what is this?}

 

Yes for the North Stand, or rather the land behind it. The plans no longer involve its demolition.

 

Notice of Sevitude can also be called Dominant Tenement

 

Dominant tenement

A dominant tenement enjoys a right to exercise a real burden or a servitude, (the Scottish equivalent of the English easement or right over land) over neighbouring land. The land or property which is burdened is called the servient tenement. The more modern terms of "benefited property" and "burdened property" respectively are becoming more common.

[saintglenn72]

I was wondering what the purchase order was for. I forgot about the whole North stand thing.

 

Its for the land behind, the demo is not required now I understand.

[Kyle]

Thanks very much Glenn, really appreciate that.

 

I'm not sure the club can have another summer like the last one, where we only start signing players when the budget allocation has been decided. That's a month into pre-season and a week or two before the kick off in the league season. Appreciate we probably wouldn't have signed anyone if not for the sale of Stevie May anyway.

 

Did you get the impression that Tommy would be allocated a budget in January, or was his hopes of an attacking midfielder/pacey winger a bit pie in the sky?

 

Sounds like was relatively productive.

[rik2304]

Thanks very much for all that saintglenn72. Very interesting read.

 

Performed admirably for someone with so few posts tbh

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

Who was Steve's favourite player when he was a Rangers fan ?

Ross is definately going to be earning his crust eh , he seems to be doing more than anyone at the club . No wonder he's no on here anymore .

[saintglenn72]

Thanks very much Glenn, really appreciate that.

 

I'm not sure the club can have another summer like the last one, where we only start signing players when the budget allocation has been decided. That's a month into pre-season and a week or two before the kick off in the league season. Appreciate we probably wouldn't have signed anyone if not for the sale of Stevie May anyway.

 

Did you get the impression that Tommy would be allocated a budget in January, or was his hopes of an attacking midfielder/pacey winger a bit pie in the sky?

 

Sounds like was relatively productive.

 

Think it was more of the "see what McFadden/Graham can produce" type of statement. Apparently there is a clause in Faddy contract that if either he or the club feel its not working then either can walk away in January, thus freeing up funds! Don't think its pie in the sky, its more like a suck it & see type of scenario. A fully fit squad could probably consolidate our position, however losing Macca & Scobbie is massive, and only exposes our frailties as a squad.

[saintglenn72]

Thanks very much for all that saintglenn72. Very interesting read.

 

Performed admirably for someone with so few posts tbh

 

thanks very much, I try my best in as little posts as I can muster!

[saintglenn72]

Who was Steve's favourite player when he was a Rangers fan ?

Ross is definately going to be earning his crust eh , he seems to be doing more than anyone at the club . No wonder he's no on here anymore .

 

Ross will indeed be earning his crust, although I'm sure he's up to the task as it could make a real difference.

 

For the record SB's favourite (The club formerly known as) Rangers players were Tore Andre Flo and Terry Hurlock.

[Abernethy Saint]

Thanks - some interesting stuff.

 

Slightly worried that an awful lot of issues got the answer "Oh Ross will take care of that". As all of us who work(ed) in hierarchies know, without continuing and real support from the top (eg direction, decisions, support, bit of cash) guys in the middle can achieve little.

 

All in all though, much more positives than negatives. 

[saintglenn72]

Thanks - some interesting stuff.

 

Slightly worried that an awful lot of issues got the answer "Oh Ross will take care of that". As all of us who work(ed) in hierarchies know, without continuing and real support from the top (eg direction, decisions, support, bit of cash) guys in the middle can achieve little.

 

All in all though, much more positives than negatives. 

 

I agree Abernethy, although the expansion of the fans forum will presumably provide some direction/support, with the Board providing support/cash where required. As you said more positives than negatives. The situation over the summer all seemed to make sense (most of it anyway!) after this meeting, however probably still hampered by the wall of silence fans were met with.

 

Overall I'm glad I don't run a football club, its no enviable task!

[Kyle]

Thanks - some interesting stuff.

 

Slightly worried that an awful lot of issues got the answer "Oh Ross will take care of that". As all of us who work(ed) in hierarchies know, without continuing and real support from the top (eg direction, decisions, support, bit of cash) guys in the middle can achieve little.

 

All in all though, much more positives than negatives. 

 

I'm hopeful that Ross will be allocated a budget and will receive support as and when he needs it, whether it's financial or just to provide extra weight behind his initiatives.

 

Definitely got faith in what Ross can and has achieved at the club.

[slf]

ross was conveniently absent so

 

 

the directors answered everything with its ross's job. 

 

thats buck passing supreme 

[Kyle]

ross was conveniently absent so

 

 

the directors answered everything with its ross's job. 

 

thats buck passing supreme 

 

 

I hope poor Ross isn't being set up as a fall guy.

[slf]

any chance of getting bbd an invite to the next secret meeting.fly on the wall and all that