Player contracts and transfers

[jhq]

Why invest money you claim you don't have, to not strengthen the team and secure top flight safety? Then you will have to sell your assets to fund imbalances in the future caused by lower league football, lower attendances, lower sponsorship money, lesser cup runs etc. To me top flight football is crucial to this clubs survival and without investment in the squad, I fear for the future

Why would you think that top flight football is crucial the our survival given we have spent many more seasons out of the top flight than in it and always survived?

[TommyTurnersTache]

Why would you think that top flight football is crucial the our survival given we have spent many more seasons out of the top flight than in it and always survived?

We had higher attendances then, players didn't demand the money they do now. For years we were trying so hard to get out of that league and if we go back there with the current wage budget, our attendances would decrease and we would have less money coming in which would be very dangerous. Edited July 11, 2014 by TommyTurnersTache

[blueheaven]

It's fascinating reading that interview with Steve Brown. To me, it raises a lot of questions:

 

- If the SFA have taken £120,000 out of £700,000, how does that amount to 42%? Where does the rest of the £700,000 that Saints aren't being given, go?

- Exactly what are they taking 42% of? Presumably it's not the prize money. So is it the gate money? Surely Saints aren't having to foot the bill for the hire of Celtic Park?

- If it's costing Saints that much, how much did it cost Dundee United to go to the final and not even win the thing?

 

Building our own training facilities at McDiarmid Park is a great idea. But I've always wondered why that didn't happen ages ago. Surely it makes sense with the sheer amount of land that is unused at the stadium, which could have been generating extra money for the club for some time now.

 

We're in desperate need of a little boost to inject a little bit of positivity before the Luzern match. Here's hoping Stevie May signs a new contract early next week, and the news isn't accompanied by an interview with the chairman where he complains about how expensive new contracts are these days.

[dave mc]

Prize money for winning the cup was £60,000, but there was also money for each round we progressed through, and tv money for Raith away the semi and the final, plus a share of the total gate money for both semi's.I assume the gate money for final is split between us and Arabs, mi nus any costs, that on top of 4 huge crowds at 2 Euro games and 2 Christmas games, I can't understand why we'd make a loss without final win.Aberdeen got almost a million on prize money for winning the Diddy cup, so we should go for that this year

Edited July 11, 2014 by dave mc

[rik2304]

I thought they had to factor in the £50,000 for Lomas in this years books as well.

Plus £40,000 for Brittain. So an additional £90,000 on top as well.

[rik2304]

Wonder what builder/contractor will be doing the infrastructure work?

[auld reekie saint]

I realise that it wouldn't raise enough revenue to sign players, but it's a real bugbear of mine that there is precious little Cup Winner merchandise on the website -a couple of t-shirts, a polo shirt and a 60 quid photo album (that has gone online today). I'd have spent at least 100 notes in the afterglow of that amazing day on the usual stuff- for myself, friends and family. Campus has a few (and only a few) things on its website, I ordered a mug last week from Campus but was told today that the one I've chosen won't be available for 2 to 3 weeks. No problem, I chose another. But why can't the club put more stuff on their online store? Surely they're losing out on some extra revenue.

Agreed. Where is the cup final commemorative dvd? I phoned the club a couple of days ago to ask about this. The women on reception made vague promises about this coming out in the future but she didn't sound very convincing. A lot of us will still have our 98/99 season to remember video. I seem to remember it came out pretty promptly . Even if something is brought out it will have lost out to the enterprising bootleg copies.

[essexsaint]

Agreed. Where is the cup final commemorative dvd? I phoned the club a couple of days ago to ask about this. The women on reception made vague promises about this coming out in the future but she didn't sound very convincing. A lot of us will still have our 98/99 season to remember video. I seem to remember it came out pretty promptly . Even if something is brought out it will have lost out to the enterprising bootleg copies.

Totally agree.....who is at fault for this? Are we really this reactive in providing for our fans?

It's been said 1000 times before...the club asks for fans to come back and support, but the club does shoot itself in the foot sometimes with its PR of which is on par with a Sunday league team.

If they got a dvd out early doors, thousands would have been sold. If they had a good range of cup winners merchandise (and there isn't a range whatsoever) I would have purchased something and even my wife would have got something if it was a smart female polo or something. What about for younger fans? What is there? My two year old could use the cup winners mug to do a poo in I suppose if she is caught short with no nappy.

Not quite on the theme of the thread but I agree with u.

[XxLeahSaintxX]

After reading the Steve Brown interview in the paper today I'm glad in a way that he's came out and said why there hasn't been any new signings BUT it is clear that he maybe needs some coaching when it comes to speaking in interviews. Making comments such as 'if there's somebody out there willing to step forward to fund new signings please step forward' isn't the way to endear people to your way of thinking.

Stadium infrastructure does need to be sorted at the club and having our own training facilities will allow us in the long term to save a bit of money. We'll also be losing a sum of money from the Jehovah Witness convention as that's now being held at the Hydro.

We had a strong team last season that gelled well together and bought into what TW was trying to do. I just hope that this continues and we don't end up **** creek if we suffer any long term injuries.

Also agree with those saying about the club need to start to learn to capitalise on any successes we have and respond in a timely fashion to build on momentum!

Edited July 11, 2014 by XxLeahSaintxX

[auld reekie saint]

The chairman's comment about only bringing in players when injury dictates does not seem like sensible planing. What happens outwith the transfer window? What if we get say 5 injuries during the autumn. Do we scramble around for 5 signings in January. Sounds like a good way of signing sub-standard players.

The Browns have always prided themselves on sensible stewardship. Youth players plus signings to replace injured players does not sound like a sensible long term plan.It does sound like a way to save a few pennys in the very short term.

[jimbo_1884]

For those asking about the amount the SFA take out, money.which I believe they use to help fund all the coaching initiatives and other things etc. Took me 2 mins to find on the SFA website and seems pretty clear cut to me - the only variable is the charge for Celtic Park. Had there been any other changes, Saints would have known about them as it would have been brought up at the AGM.

(g) The receipts from the Semi-Final matches in the Competition shall be pooled and shall be deemed to include monies received from all admission charges to the matches, radio and television fees, and any sums in respect of advertising within the stadium specially for the occasion.
 

The Scottish FA shall retain 10% of the balance, after payment of the expenses of the two matches and the clubs’ guarantees.

The remainder, after payment of the rental for the use of a ground or grounds, the scale of which shall be determined by the Board, shall be divided, equally, among the four clubs.
 

(h) The receipts at the Final Tie shall be calculated in the manner defined in section (g) foresaid mutatis mutandis.

The Scottish FA shall retain 10% of the balance, after payment of the expenses of the match and the clubs’ guarantees. The remainder, after payment of the rental for the use of the ground, the scale of which shall be determined by the Board, shall be divided, equally, between the competing clubs.
 

42. Alterations and Additions to Rules

(a) The Board shall have the power to temporarily suspend, amend or add to these Rules as circumstances may dictate from time to time, as it deems appropriate in its reasonable discretion, to facilitate the smooth running of the Competition, or in order to ensure that the Scottish FA is capable of meeting the commitments put upon it under the terms of its television and sponsorship contracts.
 

Subject to the foregoing, alterations or additions may only be made at the Annual General Meeting of the Scottish FA.

[auld reekie saint]

Not seeing 42% ?

[rik2304]

There is also the secret % they siphon off to give to The Rangers.

[croc]

The figure of £170,000 Steve Brown Quoted seems relatively small to bring in three players which might have included a player that was worth a couple of million not long ago,who allegedly wanted to pull on a Saints shirt.!makes ye a wee bit worried .! Is this the time to "Consolidate" or "Speculate".? even to the tune of £170,000.!?p.s.I too did not like Steve Browns "Appeal" for a benefactor to step forward.! a wee bit of a gormless quip.!

Edited July 11, 2014 by croc

[gingermunkie]

120k would be roughly 42% of saints' half of £700,000(£350,00). Would it not? Unless I've misunderstood stuff I've read on here and the game made £1.4mil, making the £700k saints' half.

(I've not read the article yet)

[541ntees]

The chairman's comment about only bringing in players when injury dictates does not seem like sensible planing. What happens outwith the transfer window? What if we get say 5 injuries during the autumn. Do we scramble around for 5 signings in January. Sounds like a good way of signing sub-standard players.

The Browns have always prided themselves on sensible stewardship. Youth players plus signings to replace injured players does not sound like a sensible long term plan.It does sound like a way to save a few pennys in the very short term.

would it be sensible to sign 5 good players who would demand a good wage to sit on the bench or in the stands in case we get a quite a few injuries?

[gingermunkie]

Ok so read it now, he never says that £120k is 42% of 700k.

What is said is that:

""It was made to look that we were going to post a £700,000 profit with the Scottish Cup win,” he pointed out."

Later in the article he says:

"“The figures I was given for the cup was nothing like the reality. That amount of money has not materialised. It’s £120,000 less. The SFA take a 42% cut, I think it is, of the figure I was given."

What that means is that he thought it was going to be around £700k mark, they got about £580k. The SFA took 42% of the overall gate. He also says in the quote that he only thinks that so it was rough number not necessarily exactly 42%(it is however the answer to the ultimate question so fair enough for picking 42).

I don't know if someone got their maths wrong at some stage, either at the club or the SFA or they expected to sell more tickets or something but that all seems fairly above board to me.

Edited July 11, 2014 by gingermunkie

[jhq]

We had higher attendances then, players didn't demand the money they do now. For years we were trying so hard to get out of that league and if we go back there with the current wage budget, our attendances would decrease and we would have less money coming in which would be very dangerous.

I doubt we had higher attendances in our last stint in the First division.  Obviously if we were relegated we would have to adjust the wage budget accordingly.  If were were to be relegated I am 100% certain our club would continue to exist.

[TommyTurnersTache]

I doubt we had higher attendances in our last stint in the First division. Obviously if we were relegated we would have to adjust the wage budget accordingly. If were were to be relegated I am 100% certain our club would continue to exist.

I disagree. Without the cup win, we would be in trouble. If we went down we'd have two options; sell the assets, bank the cash and develop youth but ultimately struggle to get back up, have less money coming in OR keep the same team and overspend to get promoted and hope for a good strong positions in the league.

I think we are very very thin as a squad and are weaker than last year, we are a couple of injuries away from being in trouble. If we did go down, would the fans regret investing in infrastructure that we may not be able to afford to run or maintain when we're a league lower??

I think brown is being very very shortsighted and I thibk his words and actions will come back to haunt him. His interview has really got my back up, he seems quite arrogant.

Edited July 11, 2014 by TommyTurnersTache

[208saint]

He did day he'd just got a last minute place as a player didn't travel, can't remember which player

Lightening strikes twice! Goodwillie doesn't travel to Perth and John gets a place on board

[auld reekie saint]

would it be sensible to sign 5 good players who would demand a good wage to sit on the bench or in the stands in case we get a quite a few injuries?

You don't just sign players to provide cover. You sign players to advance the squad,fill places left by players who departed and create competition for places.

Signing 2 to 3 players as TW originally suggested would make sense and it obviously provides some cover in the event of injury. I merely used 5 players as an example of a possible scenario.

[541ntees]

You don't just sign players to provide cover. You sign players to advance the squad,fill places left by players who departed and create competition for places.

Signing 2 to 3 players as TW originally suggested would make sense and it obviously provides some cover in the event of injury. I merely used 5 players as an example of a possible scenario.

you sign 5 guys to improve the squad then 5 guys who already have signed improved contracts drop out n get paid for nothing.

clancy iwelumo fallon riordan kudus compton keatings hart and finnegan are all perfect examples

[franco]

Should never have released Paddy Cregg.

[jhq]

I disagree. Without the cup win, we would be in trouble. If we went down we'd have two options; sell the assets, bank the cash and develop youth but ultimately struggle to get back up, have less money coming in OR keep the same team and overspend to get promoted and hope for a good strong positions in the league.

I think we are very very thin as a squad and are weaker than last year, we are a couple of injuries away from being in trouble. If we did go down, would the fans regret investing in infrastructure that we may not be able to afford to run or maintain when we're a league lower??

I think brown is being very very shortsighted and I thibk his words and actions will come back to haunt him. His interview has really got my back up, he seems quite arrogant.

What you said originally was that top flight football was vital to the survival of the club.  I disagreed that we need to be in the top flight to survive as a club.   Now you're saying if we go down we would have two options - both of which would mean the club has survived.  Incidentally, I'm prepared to put my neck on the line and say we won't go down next season anyway.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Year after year folk state desire to give youngsters a chance ahead of journeymen on daft salaries. Year after year it doesn't happen.

In my opinion, the club are gambling on NOT employing journeymen and genuinely putting faith in our excellent and ever expanding youth setup.

We can't sign names that will bring in punters. Goodwillie wouldn't have sold another 500 season tickets to folk desperate to watch his world class skills, and let's face it, he was never affordable for a club like Saints.

If we had the likes of GMS, Gauld or Robertson suddenly breaking into the team as 17 or 18 year olds, then the unknown quantity of excitement might just put bums on seats.

Not saying these guys are amazing, but for a spell last season there was a buzz all around the country about United's young stars.

Brown, Kane, Easton, Thomson, Kitchen, etc. etc. one or more of these names could be better for us than a dozen Goodwillies.

It's a gamble. It's also a gamble that fans have been crying out for for as long as I can remember.

Every club in Scotland is hard up. Squads are smaller, budgets are shrinking. IMO, there is an abundance of journeymen out there who can come in on loan or short term deals if required as injury cover, so why pay them until they are required?

I don't have 3 backups at my job in case I get ill. Pretty sure if I took ill then they'd employ cover for me. Simple. Why should football be any different.

Tough on Steve Brown, who is useless in front of a microphone, but ultimately doing the right thing IMO. With some decent PR spin and better timing, this could have been a positive story too.