Hibs v Saints, 23/09/2023

[The Kinross Saint]

What money are we going to use to pay him off? I understand the loss of our Premiership status would be a bigger loss but when have the club ever speculated to accumulate.

[sixties saintee]

Thinking a out o these injuries Saints pick up, we never had that amount o injuries in Willie's teams, same team virtually week in week out, is it aw doon tae these sports scientist guys ??

[pezza70]

They spend too much time in the gym, in the old days they ran and ran and worked on their skills, plus the part timers worked on top of playing footy, I laugh when I hear that a player is a box to box type of player as if it’s a medal of honour because he runs

[blueheaven]

42 minutes ago, sixties saintee said:

Thinking a out o these injuries Saints pick up, we never had that amount o injuries in Willie's teams, same team virtually week in week out, is it aw doon tae these sports scientist guys ??

Probably all sorts of reasons why injuries are different now to what they were back then, I suppose.

I suspect players used to play through smaller injuries a lot more in those days. Who knows what damage they were doing to themselves by doing that, though?

Also the game now is a lot more about physical fitness. Perhaps players in bygone eras were less likely to pick up these injuries as they weren't asked to push themselves as much as players are today?

 

[RandomGuy]

Were players part time during Ormonds era?

[SlickDT]

2 hours ago, pezza70 said:

They spend too much time in the gym, in the old days they ran and ran and worked on their skills, plus the part timers worked on top of playing footy, I laugh when I hear that a player is a box to box type of player as if it’s a medal of honour because he runs

A good level strength and conditioning coach would not have players injured more, rather they would have them more robust to cope with the demands of the sport.

I think you would find that it's more likely to be the speed of the game, the demands on the body and the fact players probably just played through many injuries in years gone by.

I would be interested to compare the running stats of the average player now and back then, as well as the amount of sprints per game.

[Gekko]

I was busy at the weekend, so I didn't see the whole game. 

I saw the highlights and it seemed like Hibs were carving us open at will. 

A few signs of positivity though with the Phillips chance and us going close in the second. 

I didn't see much of him in the highlights, but people say Sven had a decent debut. 

I agree with others who have called for a change of formation. 

There's no point in trying to play like Pep's Man City until we get the basics right. 

A 4-4-2 would be my choice right now. It would suit every single player in the team I feel. 

I'm still not at the panic button stage but we all know, as MacLean does, that improvement and points need to come fast. 

Who'd have thought that a league game against Livingston would be so important.

[Cagey]

4 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Probably all sorts of reasons why injuries are different now to what they were back then, I suppose.

I suspect players used to play through smaller injuries a lot more in those days. Who knows what damage they were doing to themselves by doing that, though?

Also the game now is a lot more about physical fitness. Perhaps players in bygone eras were less likely to pick up these injuries as they weren't asked to push themselves as much as players are today?

 

I seem to remember players getting cortisone injections and I think I read in later years that older players were crippled because of it.

[Broggy Man]

That said we don’t have a great record against Livvie

[sixties saintee]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Were players part time during Ormonds era?

Pretty sure there was some.

[Strawman]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Were players part time during Ormonds era?

I don’t think Saints turned Full time until their second season at McDiarmid in 1990

[R.B.B:- Adz]

8 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I think at the very, very least it makes sense to see how the Livingston game goes. If we win that our points tally will be closer to the other teams again and it would hopefully give us a bit of a confidence boost and a platform to build from, with our next game after that against Aberdeen who are likely to still be 11th (as they play Rangers at Ibrox on Saturday).

Since Livi came up to the premiership 5/6 years, I can only think of us beating them once in the league at Livi… and we’ve had some bloody good sides since 2018.

Very optimistic thinking THIS Saints side will go and reverse that.

[PSJ.84]

36 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Since Livi came up to the premiership 5/6 years, I can only think of us beating them once in the league at Livi… and we’ve had some bloody good sides since 2018.

Very optimistic thinking THIS Saints side will go and reverse that.

8 wins and 8 losses in the 20 games (19 in the League) played since their first season back up in 2018/19. 

4 wins, 3 draws and 3 defeats at McDiarmid.

3 wins, 1 draw and 5 defeats at Almondvale. 
 

Beat them at Hampden too, obviously. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by PSJ.84

[R.B.B:- Adz]

1 minute ago, PSJ.84 said:

8 wins and 8 losses in the 20 games (19 in the League) played since their first season back up in 2018/19. 

4 wins, 3 draws and 3 defeats at McDiarmid.

3 wins, 1 draw and 5 defeats at Almondvale. 
 

Beat them at Hampden too, obviously. 

We’ve beat Livi 3 times at Almondvale/Tony Macaroni three times in the league since 2018? No way!

[garydavidson]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Were players part time during Ormonds era?

This article says they went part time in 1976 after being relegated from the Premier league so it would suggest they were: https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/st-johnstone/4756046/exclusive-st-johnstone-fc-vic-robertson-youngest-goalscorer-fran-franczak/

[Cagey]

52 minutes ago, Strawman said:

I don’t think Saints turned Full time until their second season at McDiarmid in 1990

I seem to remember Glasgow based players coming through in the train in the morning. Might have been from Alex Ferguson's book.

[PSJ.84]

54 minutes ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

We’ve beat Livi 3 times at Almondvale/Tony Macaroni three times in the league since 2018? No way!

Beat them 1-0 when they first came back up, was pretty undeserved if my memory serves correctly. Took the lead early on and were happy to sit on that. 2-1 during covid and then the late Ali Crawford winner two seasons ago. 

[sixties saintee]

13 hours ago, Strawman said:

I don’t think Saints turned Full time until their second season at McDiarmid in 1990

You just triggered a memory, Willie Coburn delivering tae Goodlyburn School efter training.

[blueheaven]

14 hours ago, Gekko said:

A 4-4-2 would be my choice right now. It would suit every single player in the team I feel. 

 

One thing that has given me a small glimmer of hope is Macca saying in the Courier that we'd been preparing to play 4-4-2 all week, with May and Kane up front, but had to change our plans at the last minute when Kane got a knock.

However he also says that he didn't replace Kane with Jephcott because he would have been left with no recognised strikers on his bench, which feels a bit like a nice way of avoiding saying he just didn't want to pick Jephcott.

Kane's apparently unlikely to be ready for Saturday and Clark's not ready yet either, so it'll be interesting to see what he changes for the Livi game. Does Jephcott get a start, or does Costelloe maybe play through the middle next to May? We do have options. Or are we on course for yet another week of May isolated on his own?

 

 

[Radford 72]

25 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

One thing that has given me a small glimmer of hope is Macca saying in the Courier that we'd been preparing to play 4-4-2 all week, with May and Kane up front, but had to change our plans at the last minute when Kane got a knock.

I don't think he was saying that. He was saying we'd been working on the 4-3-3 all week and when Kane got injured he went with May up front because, one, we'd been working on the shape and, two, because May and Jephcott would leave us no strikers on the bench.

Whatever my thoughts prior to his appointment, I'm content that I gave Steven MacLean a clean slate when he got the job. I listened to what he said and tried to buy in. I think in the past I'd have kept my thoughts to myself about things right now to give him the sort of chance the argument will be that everyone deserves and because I know it's still very early days but, my God, my gut feeling is not good at all right now. Obviously I hope I'm completely wrong.

[blueheaven]

12 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

I don't think he was saying that. He was saying we'd been working on the 4-3-3 all week and when Kane got injured he went with May up front because, one, we'd been working on the shape and, two, because May and Jephcott would leave us no strikers on the bench.

Not convinced on that. He mentioned playing 4-4-2 in the closed doors game against St Mirren and to me he was suggesting that would have been his plan for Saturday. Either way though, I'm not convinced by the idea that having a striker on the bench is of more value than giving yourself the best possible chance from the start of the game. In fact I'm not even convinced by the argument that we'd have had no striker on the bench. Weren't we told when Costelloe arrived that he can play in every position across the front line?

 

12 minutes ago, Radford 72 said:

Whatever my thoughts prior to his appointment, I'm content that I gave Steven MacLean a clean slate when he got the job. I listened to what he said and tried to buy in. I think in the past I'd have kept my thoughts to myself about things right now to give him the sort of chance the argument will be that everyone deserves and because I know it's still very early days but, my God, my gut feeling is not good at all right now. Obviously I hope I'm completely wrong.

I think this is pretty much where I am at the moment too.

[SaintJet]

33 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Not convinced on that. He mentioned playing 4-4-2 in the closed doors game against St Mirren and to me he was suggesting that would have been his plan for Saturday. Either way though, I'm not convinced by the idea that having a striker on the bench is of more value than giving yourself the best possible chance from the start of the game. In fact I'm not even convinced by the argument that we'd have had no striker on the bench. Weren't we told when Costelloe arrived that he can play in every position across the front line?

 

I think this is pretty much where I am at the moment too.

I think you and Rad are the same as a lot of us and feel Macca deserves every chance, hoping that we are going to see something positive to give us a prayer but the stats and the performances don't lie. He has to go if we lose on Saturday.

[slf]

16 hours ago, Strawman said:

I don’t think Saints turned Full time until their second season at McDiarmid in 1990

After the first season disaster in the first ever premier season we went part time.

didn’t go full time until like you stated

[Linky]

Until Kane and Clark are fully up and running, I don't think a full assessment can be made. They make a huge difference.

[crieffsaintandy]

5 hours ago, Linky said:

Until Kane and Clark are fully up and running, I don't think a full assessment can be made. They make a huge difference.

Great logic, but when’s that going to happen, next season, Easter, Xmas? Maybe by then we will be down, he knew the deal with these two as serial sick notes when he was building over the summer and now is left with an unfit front man he signed and another who is past his best, so maybe his recruitment isn’t too hot, going by what I have seen of Costello wouldn’t be looking him to be the saviour, Macca has what he has now and it’s time to rise to the challenge, talks cheap we’ve all heard it and nothings changed the results are still crap, defending is awful, creativity poor and attacking threat zilch. He either quits soon or gets an experienced man in to support him (experienced wage thief sitting in McD doing nothing all week Gus Mac) and what exactly are Cleland and Liam Craig adding?