Plastic Pitches?

[johndb]

I believe I read that MacDiarmid Park has an Astro-turf plastic pitch? What's wrong with grass? I can't imagine playing football or rugby on a plastic mat. Bad enough learning to ski on brush matting!

I hear Killie have one too? Just how many stadiums have them now? I can see some of the advantages but that just isn't football to me. Managed fine in concrete playgrounds with tennis balls in Aberdeen but turf is good.

[blueheaven]

The astro-turf at McDiarmid is next to the stadium, for public hire. The pitch the first team play their games on is grass.

Personally I think we should have gone for an artificial playing surface at McDiarmid years ago, and probably would have done had it not been for Tommy Wright's objection to them. They're expensive to install but we must have spent a fortune on maintaining and repeatedly relaying the grass over the last few years, and just look at what we have to show for it.

If we had an artificial surface the first team would also be able to train on it, and the women's team could play their games on it, and we could potentially even make money through ground-sharing.

[rik2304]

Chris would make a fine mess trying to mow astro.

[pezza70]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

The astro-turf at McDiarmid is next to the stadium, for public hire. The pitch the first team play their games on is grass.

Personally I think we should have gone for an artificial playing surface at McDiarmid years ago, and probably would have done had it not been for Tommy Wright's objection to them. They're expensive to install but we must have spent a fortune on maintaining and repeatedly relaying the grass over the last few years, and just look at what we have to show for it.

If we had an artificial surface the first team would also be able to train on it, and the women's team could play their games on it, and we could potentially even make money through ground-sharing.

Plenty of clubs down here are looking at them for basically the reasons you just mentioned, the big thing here regarding the maintenance on grass pitches is water restrictions and clubs need to apply for special government permits to water the grass and can only water say after 800pm so the heat doesn’t cause evaporation.

Having to relay turf constantly is a long term waste of money, granted our league is a summer sport and we don’t get snow/frost on our playing fields but having to replace patches due to the grass dying off is just as expensive too long term.

[sixties saintee]

3 hours ago, blueheaven said:

The astro-turf at McDiarmid is next to the stadium, for public hire. The pitch the first team play their games on is grass.

Personally I think we should have gone for an artificial playing surface at McDiarmid years ago, and probably would have done had it not been for Tommy Wright's objection to them. They're expensive to install but we must have spent a fortune on maintaining and repeatedly relaying the grass over the last few years, and just look at what we have to show for it.

If we had an artificial surface the first team would also be able to train on it, and the women's team could play their games on it, and we could potentially even make money through ground-sharing.

But he would not have played McLean.

[blueheaven]

2 hours ago, sixties saintee said:

But he would not have played McLean.

Maybe not, and that was his call, but I'd be interested to see if there's any actual solid evidence that artificial pitches cause or exacerbate injuries. I've had a look before and couldn't find any.

I can't imagine playing on pitches covered in mud, divots and bald patches are great for injuries either, but no one ever seems to mention that.

[PSJ.84]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

Maybe not, and that was his call, but I'd be interested to see if there's any actual solid evidence that artificial pitches cause or exacerbate injuries. I've had a look before and couldn't find any.

I can't imagine playing on pitches covered in mud, divots and bald patches are great for injuries either, but no one ever seems to mention that.

My hips and knees are always in absolute agony for days after playing on an artificial surface, if that’s any help 

Definitely not a massive fan of them, but agree that it makes sense for clubs. I do also find the bumbling and moaning every time anybody plays away to Killie/Livi/Accies etc. a bit tiresome. 

[SaintJet]

I think that through the course of time we will eventually have one of these Hybrid type pitches we see down in the English Premiership.

In the meantime we need to sort our real grass pitch. Some years back we were the envy of every team in the league even in the depths of winter and it seems now we lurch from one botched job to the next.

I'll throw up Motherwell's pitch as an example here. About five or six years ago it was an absolute disgrace with bald patches and Leanne Dempster was always defending their lack of funds to fix it. Motherwell now have a fantastic pitch and it stands up even in the dog days of January and February. If Motherwell can sort it out surely we can.

Our pitch these days is a slop of mud and grass.

[sixties saintee]

5 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Maybe not, and that was his call, but I'd be interested to see if there's any actual solid evidence that artificial pitches cause or exacerbate injuries. I've had a look before and couldn't find any.

I can't imagine playing on pitches covered in mud, divots and bald patches are great for injuries either, but no one ever seems to mention that.

Aye he seamed fine on them when he was wae hearts.

[Shibbydoo]

Plastic pitches are shite, we are a professional football team who should play on grass.

 

[Cagey]

48 minutes ago, Shibbydoo said:

Plastic pitches are shite, we are a professional football team who should play on grass.

 

Yeah as long as you have a decent groundsman and contractors with a tractor with wheels on.

I hate to think how much money the have wasted on that pitch over the last 4 seasons.

Surely they can speak to Motherwell and see how they managed to change a ploughed field into a bowling green.

[mainstand]

52 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Yeah as long as you have a decent groundsman and contractors with a tractor with wheels on.

I hate to think how much money the have wasted on that pitch over the last 4 seasons.

Surely they can speak to Motherwell and see how they managed to change a ploughed field into a bowling green.

they sold a player and invested in a hybrid surface. Motherwell to 'rebuild pitch from the ground up' in new hybrid Fir Park venture | Pitchcare        Costing nearly £2m in all according to some reports

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by mainstand

[blueheaven]

12 hours ago, Shibbydoo said:

Plastic pitches are shite, we are a professional football team who should play on grass.

 

I don't understand this view. What's so good about grass? Have you seen our pitch? It's the very definition of shite. We've not even reached December yet and it's a mess.

As a professional football club I think we should have a modern surface that can be played on, and profited from, seven days a week.

[rik2304]

Maybe when those "add ons" from the brilliant deal for Ali McCann kick in we can afford to upgrade to a hybrid pitch. 

 

 

[Dooj]

18 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Maybe not, and that was his call, but I'd be interested to see if there's any actual solid evidence that artificial pitches cause or exacerbate injuries. I've had a look before and couldn't find any.

 

I dont think for a minute there can be any solid evidence about artificial pitches causing/worsening injuries. We live in such a litigious world that the merest hint of such evidence would have the SFA's and clubs' insurers having to pay out for players' "ruined careers". If it was ever shown that the football authorities knew that there might be negative effects, the consequences would be horrendous. I dont have a great deal of faith in the SFA but even they wouldn't be that stupid given the potential financial impact (quite aside from the moral argument of it being wrong to provide your employees with unsafe tools/equipment).

Unfortunately, the existence or not of proper scientific evidence doesn't really stop people (including managers) believing what they want to believe.

 

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, Dooj said:

I dont think for a minute there can be any solid evidence about artificial pitches causing/worsening injuries. We live in such a litigious world that the merest hint of such evidence would have the SFA's and clubs' insurers having to pay out for players' "ruined careers". If it was ever shown that the football authorities knew that there might be negative effects, the consequences would be horrendous. I dont have a great deal of faith in the SFA but even they wouldn't be that stupid given the potential financial impact (quite aside from the moral argument of it being wrong to provide your employees with unsafe tools/equipment).

Unfortunately, the existence or not of proper scientific evidence doesn't really stop people (including managers) believing what they want to believe.

 

There have been some studies into it, but the results have been inconclusive. There's a pretty good summary of the various studies here: https://www.goal.com/en/news/do-artificial-football-pitches-cause-more-injuries-than-grass/1prtyjo6rv5jh13jpf7fvb0jfz

[Dooj]

7 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

There have been some studies into it, but the results have been inconclusive. There's a pretty good summary of the various studies here: https://www.goal.com/en/news/do-artificial-football-pitches-cause-more-injuries-than-grass/1prtyjo6rv5jh13jpf7fvb0jfz

Thanks, useful summary. One of the problems with obtaining conclusive results is that players might well change their playing style when on a plastic pitch which might have an effect on injuries sustained (in addition to the footwear, friction issues). I get the impression that players are less likely to go to ground on a plastic pitch, and they are definitely less able to slide. Makes direct comparisons and a definitive conclusion difficult. Will probably mean that the financial argument will win out over the anecdotal evidence from individual players and managers.

[Dooj]

Just as a follow up, I found an article published this year that summarised all the studies that have looked at ACL injuries on grass versus artificial turf. The results showed that male players were not at increased risk of ACL injury on artificial turf, but that females were.

And in another article which interviewed professional players, while there were different opinions (depending on age, position, injury history), many held the view that artificial turf also affected "ball-surface interactions, game play, tactics/strategy, footwear selection, movement, and fatigue". Whether these are just perceptions or not is probably irrelevant; if players have these beliefs it is bound to affect the way they think about the game and their performance.

[garydavidson]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:31 PM, PSJ.84 said:

My hips and knees are always in absolute agony for days after playing on an artificial surface, if that’s any help 

You are just an old git or not doing warm downs? I played on artificial for 10 years in my mid 20s-30s and never had much issue at all.

I still feel the problem in this country extends from that farcical pitch we allowed Dunfermline to play on with its square slabs of astro. 

How many players have done an ACL injury on grass in comparison to artificial? That would be a good place to start.

Edited November 17, 2022 by garydavidson

[PSJ.84]

14 hours ago, garydavidson said:

You are just an old git or not doing warm downs? I played on artificial for 10 years in my mid 20s-30s and never had much issue at all.

I’ll blame the lack of a warm down! Don’t often play on them so that’s probably a contributing factor too 

[Rob]

It's a good job McDiarmid is getting a bit of a rest now. It was cutting up quite badly against Motherwell. Then you get a couple of days like we have at the moment with non stop rain. It would have been a mess this weekend.

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

It's a good job McDiarmid is getting a bit of a rest now. It was cutting up quite badly against Motherwell. Then you get a couple of days like we have at the moment with non stop rain. It would have been a mess this weekend.

Our groundsman would still be watering it.

[Center Half]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:08 AM, pezza70 said:

Plenty of clubs down here are looking at them for basically the reasons you just mentioned, the big thing here regarding the maintenance on grass pitches is water restrictions and clubs need to apply for special government permits to water the grass and can only water say after 800pm so the heat doesn’t cause evaporation.

Having to relay turf constantly is a long term waste of money, granted our league is a summer sport and we don’t get snow/frost on our playing fields but having to replace patches due to the grass dying off is just as expensive too long term.

I am sure the artificial turf  need as much if not more watering to keep the ball from sticking !  

[Cagey]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

It's a good job McDiarmid is getting a bit of a rest now. It was cutting up quite badly against Motherwell. Then you get a couple of days like we have at the moment with non stop rain. It would have been a mess this weekend.

No rest SJ women playing on pitch on Sunday. Plain stupid.

[dave mc]

It’s next week,but agree it’s silly