New Owners

[Shibbydoo]

Sounds like we definitely have new owners lined up.

Sounds like we definitely need to stay up first though.

COYS

[MySpazz]

Every time I read that we have new owners, potentially lined up, and that they are Americans I think of this interview with the guy who bought Gillingham (owner had had them for 25 years, one guy, local guy, and like Browns, wants to try a different direction) - this guy bought them earlier this year. And what comes to mind is: "Not a scooby". - please don't let us have someone who talks about Perth being close to Glass-cow and attracting new fans from the big cities!

 

 

[MySpazz]

Here's another "it's a cheap pound" invester. This time Bournmouth and again all that comes to mind: Not a scooby!

And let's not talk about Chelsea!

Personally I'd like to see Saints attract a majority investor or local consortium (if that's possible) with the Browns remaining involved.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by MySpazz

[RandomGuy]

10 minutes ago, MySpazz said:

Here's another "it's a cheap pound" invester. This time Bournmouth and again all that comes to mind: Not a scooby!

And let's not talk about Chelsea!

Personally I'd like to see Saints attract a majority investor or local consortium (if that's possible) with the Browns remaining involved.

 

 

The Browns are done with the club, its just complete fantasy to think theyll stay involved.

Steve Brown has made that clear.

As for the local investment, theres nobody. Those interested wont be rich enough, those rich enough wont be stupid enough.

[blueheaven]

10 hours ago, MySpazz said:

Personally I'd like to see Saints attract a majority investor or local consortium (if that's possible) with the Browns remaining involved.

I'm sure that would be most people's first preference but think we need to accept that's not going to happen. There's barely anyone local with the wealth required, and of those who do exist it doesn't seem any have much of an interest in football. And if the Browns wanted to remain involved, why would they be selling in the first place?

I don't particularly have a problem with outside owners coming in from further afield, and think it could have some benefits if they have some fresher, more modern ideas. My big question is, why would they want Saints? What's in it for them? I understand buying a club in the English pyramid as there's some potential for growth and making some money back on your investment - but how is anyone going to do that with a Scottish club of our size? We have a small local population so we're never going to draw massive crowds, we're unlikely to ever draw massive sponsorship or exposure, and the presence of the Old Firm pretty much strangles any chance of massive success on the field even if you have millions to spend. No one's going to make money out of a Scottish club of this size, so what's in it for them?

 

[Linky]

There's a rumour that the new owners are Ewan McGregor and Ally McCoist, but I wouldn't believe it. It'll be an owner of a multi million pound mattress company from Kentucky or something.

[garydavidson]

4 minutes ago, Linky said:

There's a rumour that the new owners are Ewan McGregor and Ally McCoist, but I wouldn't believe it. It'll be an owner of a multi million pound mattress company from Kentucky or something.

I wonder if that has come from this: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/10554494/ally-mccoist-st-johnstone-rangers-management-celtic-sutton/

Chris Sutton creating rumours :

 

 

"But as his Old Firm rival Sutton floated the light-hearted idea on tonight's BT Sport Football Extra, McCoist had his answer ready.

Amid a discussion over the relegation situation in the Premiership, McCoist said: “I’m a little bit concerned about my old team Kilmarnock.

"I’ve got to be brutally honest and I know  we don’t show any bias on this show – well, some of us don’t – I want Killie to stay up and I’m a bit concerned about them."

Currie then turned the conversation onto one of his other former clubs, St Johnstone, where he came through the ranks before moving to Sunderland.

He said: "It’s your old club St Johnstone and you love them and they need an investment.

"Chris Sutton has suggested in the past you should invest – but what about the manager’s job Ally?"

Sutton chimed in: “Yeah, I’ll go one better, Why not invest AND take over as manager?”

But McCoist said: “For the plain and simple reason guys – you two would be absolutely lost without me."

[MySpazz]

7 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I'm sure that would be most people's first preference but think we need to accept that's not going to happen. There's barely anyone local with the wealth required, and of those who do exist it doesn't seem any have much of an interest in football. And if the Browns wanted to remain involved, why would they be selling in the first place?

I don't particularly have a problem with outside owners coming in from further afield, and think it could have some benefits if they have some fresher, more modern ideas. My big question is, why would they want Saints? What's in it for them? I understand buying a club in the English pyramid as there's some potential for growth and making some money back on your investment - but how is anyone going to do that with a Scottish club of our size? We have a small local population so we're never going to draw massive crowds, we're unlikely to ever draw massive sponsorship or exposure, and the presence of the Old Firm pretty much strangles any chance of massive success on the field even if you have millions to spend. No one's going to make money out of a Scottish club of this size, so what's in it for them?

 

US folk see things are franchise, licence, IP.

The club has all three, with SPFL Premiership tenure, a share of the TV money and then the IP - land, current assets and gap for growth.

An investor would be wise to sell the ground, monetise the youth set up and make more from any ground Saints occupied. 

Who knows, but this is a 140 year old business, which has so far performed well for the past 20 years.

[blueheaven]

17 hours ago, MySpazz said:

US folk see things are franchise, licence, IP.

The club has all three, with SPFL Premiership tenure, a share of the TV money and then the IP - land, current assets and gap for growth.

An investor would be wise to sell the ground, monetise the youth set up and make more from any ground Saints occupied. 

Who knows, but this is a 140 year old business, which has so far performed well for the past 20 years.

I'm pretty sceptical about there being much financial gain to be made from any franchise, license or IP associated with St Johnstone.

I don't think any new owner has arrived at a non-OF Scottish club and found they can make big money (most have probably struggled to even make their initial investment back). Certainly the American owners at Dundee United seem to have found it pretty difficult.

The Browns have managed to end up with some decent money in the club's bank account, so clearly the club has the ability to generate some wealth, but that's been a long old slog and it's happened without them personally taking any money out of the club.

If a new owner sells the ground they're going to have to find a viable new site and spend time and money on a new stadium. Would it really be worth the trouble for what you'd end up with?

What do you mean by monetise the youth set up?

[Dooj]

I agree that is unlikely that any serious business modelling would predict much in the way of returns from owning St Johnstone. It's been nothing short of miraculous that the club has been financially stable for 40 years but that has required the Browns to give up their time to run the club without, I understand, being paid for their time or taking out any dividends. Any external investor isn't going to buy a club without costing in the time and resource to run it. Also, I get the impression (because I dont know all the figures etc) that the Browns got quite lucky with the donation of the land that McDiarmid is built on and the ASDA deal to build the stadium. This seemed hugely beneficial to the club but even if the land that McDiarmid is on was a particular asset for house building etc., would the new owners be able to fund the purchase of a new piece of land and build a stadium without other investment? Seems unlikely to me.

[Setting Son]

On 5/2/2023 at 11:37 AM, Linky said:

There's a rumour that the new owners are Ewan McGregor and Ally McCoist, but I wouldn't believe it. It'll be an owner of a multi million pound mattress company from Kentucky or something.

Give us something else to get f¥cked on

[garydavidson]

10 hours ago, blueheaven said:

The Browns have managed to end up with some decent money in the club's bank account, so clearly the club has the ability to generate some wealth, but that's been a long old slog and it's happened without them personally taking any money out of the club.

They have also not done that much to generate/generate/increase that income which should surely add to the attraction.

Edited May 3, 2023 by garydavidson

[saintgscot]

11 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I'm pretty sceptical about there being much financial gain to be made from any franchise, license or IP associated with St Johnstone.

I don't think any new owner has arrived at a non-OF Scottish club and found they can make big money (most have probably struggled to even make their initial investment back). Certainly the American owners at Dundee United seem to have found it pretty difficult.

The Browns have managed to end up with some decent money in the club's bank account, so clearly the club has the ability to generate some wealth, but that's been a long old slog and it's happened without them personally taking any money out of the club.

If a new owner sells the ground they're going to have to find a viable new site and spend time and money on a new stadium. Would it really be worth the trouble for what you'd end up with?

What do you mean by monetise the youth set up?

Plus we make more money from funerals than we do from Celtic or Rangers. Woukd loose that if we moved.

[MySpazz]

12 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I'm pretty sceptical about there being much financial gain to be made from any franchise, license or IP associated with St Johnstone.

 

What do you mean by monetise the youth set up?

The TV money and the league berth is a valuable asset. So exploiting those further is something to look at. With a B team there is a pathway for younger players from an "academy". So, you have 200 players studying sports science, playing, learning a trade in sport. Saints run the "school" and receive the £10,000 per player per year, it's how all the conference teams make their money: check out Boreham Wood.

I am not saying I approve of it, just that's how the game has gone.

Further to that would be to build on the holiday schemes and football leagues/teams. Saints ought have their own local league of some description. Good money to be made from it.

 

[blueheaven]

10 hours ago, MySpazz said:

The TV money and the league berth is a valuable asset. So exploiting those further is something to look at. With a B team there is a pathway for younger players from an "academy". So, you have 200 players studying sports science, playing, learning a trade in sport. Saints run the "school" and receive the £10,000 per player per year, it's how all the conference teams make their money: check out Boreham Wood.

I am not saying I approve of it, just that's how the game has gone.

Further to that would be to build on the holiday schemes and football leagues/teams. Saints ought have their own local league of some description. Good money to be made from it.

 

 

The academy sounds like it would take a big investment to get off the ground. Where does the £10,000 per player per year come from? Is it a system that exists in Scotland?

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way. I'm just interested.

[That_Dave]

Owning a football club is never about making money from the club. It's about demonstrating that you've got the spare cash to be able to own a football club. It's a badge of honour for businesspeople and acts as an endorsement which enables to make more money from their main business. I don't agree with the belief that intelligent people with the money wouldn't invest - it's people with the vision of what they are investing in that matters. The profitability of the actual club is a secondary concern.

This is just as true of American investors as local ones. Welcome to Wrexham will be making British football much more appealing to rich Americans to show off their wealth and investment might come in. Demonstrating the improvements made to the club, and ability to finance developments, is important for the rationale that people get involved. The Gillingham owner above is talking about the non-matchday stuff not because of the value it adds to the club, but the value it adds to the perception of what he owns.

Academies like the Boreham Wood one brings in prestige, but won't be bringing in much money at all. It's effectively just a franchise of the education provider, who get all the profits. Boreham Wood have certainly not seen a massive investment in their playing side or infrastructure. They continue to be the level they've been for years, with links to Arsenal Women, and gaining a bit of reputation and publicity. Good things for the owner, but not reflecting on bigger budgets for the manager. Finding players through the system is their outcome, not profit.

The Boreham Wood approach works in England as it's about getting players released from academies knocked into shape to have professional or semi-professional football. There are enough teams who pay decent wages in England that makes it an option - going through the academy to get into National League North (6th tier, or teams just in the top 166 in England). How many clubs in Scotland would pay a worthwhile wage?

Edited May 4, 2023 by That_Dave

[Pat McGroin]

On 5/1/2023 at 10:10 PM, MySpazz said:

Here's another "it's a cheap pound" invester. This time Bournmouth and again all that comes to mind: Not a scooby!

And let's not talk about Chelsea!

Personally I'd like to see Saints attract a majority investor or local consortium (if that's possible) with the Browns remaining involved.

 

 

I have lifelong Bournemouth supporting season ticket holder mates. Their last owner was a Russian. 
 

They’re raving about this new guy, the club are marketing themselves really well, they’re having big events like boxing at the stadium, Hollywood stars in attendance. 

[OldPoster]

23 hours ago, That_Dave said:

Owning a football club is never about making money from the club. It's about demonstrating that you've got the spare cash to be able to own a football club. It's a badge of honour for businesspeople and acts as an endorsement which enables to make more money from their main business. I don't agree with the belief that intelligent people with the money wouldn't invest - it's people with the vision of what they are investing in that matters. The profitability of the actual club is a secondary concern.

 

Owning a football club can be a money making venture. Saints have often posted profits after dividends.

Where owners make the money is from the facilities (which most clubs dont include in revenue) 

[Lifelong Saintee]

Dividends!?!

[MySpazz]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:05 AM, blueheaven said:

 

The academy sounds like it would take a big investment to get off the ground. Where does the £10,000 per player per year come from? Is it a system that exists in Scotland?

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way. I'm just interested.

TBH, I don't know if it exists in Scotland, but the "academy" thing is so much part of the lower league teams, that they have also launched them for womens game. When going up the leagues, you have the likes of Spurs operating a school in their new stadium: literally a sixth form/ FE college.  

[MySpazz]

14 hours ago, Pat McGroin said:

I have lifelong Bournemouth supporting season ticket holder mates. Their last owner was a Russian. 
 

They’re raving about this new guy, the club are marketing themselves really well, they’re having big events like boxing at the stadium, Hollywood stars in attendance. 

Concerts, alternative events and Ewan Mcgregor in attendance.....but we tried all that with Maria from the ONly way is essex!

[blueheaven]

8 hours ago, MySpazz said:

TBH, I don't know if it exists in Scotland, but the "academy" thing is so much part of the lower league teams, that they have also launched them for womens game. When going up the leagues, you have the likes of Spurs operating a school in their new stadium: literally a sixth form/ FE college.  

I get that the academy system works that way in England, but beyond selling the players for a fee when they can (which Saints already do), where does the monetization element come in? You mentioned £10,000 per player per year?

[MySpazz]

13 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I get that the academy system works that way in England, but beyond selling the players for a fee when they can (which Saints already do), where does the monetization element come in? You mentioned £10,000 per player per year?

The academy is not to produce players, it's to run an education programme for 16-19 year olds. So you'd be trying to attract 16-19 year olds who want to stay on, and would play football and get badges, sports science qualifications and so on. All the Conference teams, all the league 2 and many clubs all the way up have "academies", which don't equate to Youth team level of status. The money is the cash the gov otherwise give to, say Perth College for those doing a Sports course.

[Cleveland-Saint]

On 5/3/2023 at 4:48 AM, blueheaven said:

I'm pretty sceptical about there being much financial gain to be made from any franchise, license or IP associated with St Johnstone.

 

Is there any upside if we saw a boom in TV rights? Generally, around the world there continues to be growth in football viewers and perhaps that eventually leads to higher TV contracts. Also seeing significant interest in the US with the Wrexham story hitting headlines everywhere. They are making money over fist on selling the TV rights to their series on the club. Creative ownership may find value in places we  are not thinking of.

It would be an easy sell to Americans right now, and I bet thats where the interest is coming from. There also is a strong love for Scotland over here, golf, history, family roots, highlands, whisky etc

 

[PSJ.84]

I don’t think Wrexham is the best example tbh. Yes, they had a record turnover of nearly £6m, but they still posted a £2.9m loss. They’re absolutely ****ed if/when the two owners get bored or decide they can’t afford to keep losing that much money.