Macca for next manager

[Shipa]

Pretty much a soft no for Macca as manager.

When Callum came in it seemed like a positive thing, but there were clear risks on both sides.

For the club, they got someone they knew, a club legend, who seemed to have done well as coach/assistant manager, the obvious risks being that he had no experience as manager in his own right.

For Callum, he was going to a club he knew well, with a settled, fairly successful squad, most of whom he knew well, the downside of that being that he was taking his first management role at quite a high level, with much expectation on him. Also, a little in his defence, he came in during covid, following his predecessors unexpected departure, and in a time where, we now all realise, there was a lot of change and unrest going on behind the scenes at the club.

As for Macca, if he gets the job going forward, as others have suggested, I will give my full support to that, but the risks I have mentioned about Callum's appointment stand true, maybe even more so, this time.

Personally, I'd prefer Macca to spend more time, at Saints, in a coaching/youth development role, and/or to spend a couple of years managing in the lower leagues, to prove himself, as it feels to me that he has even less experience than Callum did when he took the job on.

TL:DR

I see Macca as a future Saints manager, and will fully back him when that time comes, just not sure now is the right time for either party.

^The above is a copy/paste of what I posted on another forum; I'll add another couple of points I missed:

As many have said, would CD have us safe now, with two games to spare? Maybe he would have done it, but I doubt it. When Macca was given interim role, my first thought was that 'He'll put a (much needed) rocket up their arses!' and that seems to have happened.

Although Macca, eh, seems, eh, a bit, eh, nervous, eh, in his interviews, he talks properly about what he has in mind, and also doesn't seem to shy away from criticism where it's due.

We are safe, but he still wants us to win the remaining games. I like that positivity.

He has said the young players will get a chance - if they earn it; that's a good attitude.

My TL:DR summary above still stands, I can see Macca as a future manager, he looks like he has what it takes, but maybe just not there yet?

[Shibbydoo]

1 hour ago, Shipa said:

Pretty much a soft no for Macca as manager.

When Callum came in it seemed like a positive thing, but there were clear risks on both sides.

For the club, they got someone they knew, a club legend, who seemed to have done well as coach/assistant manager, the obvious risks being that he had no experience as manager in his own right.

For Callum, he was going to a club he knew well, with a settled, fairly successful squad, most of whom he knew well, the downside of that being that he was taking his first management role at quite a high level, with much expectation on him. Also, a little in his defence, he came in during covid, following his predecessors unexpected departure, and in a time where, we now all realise, there was a lot of change and unrest going on behind the scenes at the club.

As for Macca, if he gets the job going forward, as others have suggested, I will give my full support to that, but the risks I have mentioned about Callum's appointment stand true, maybe even more so, this time.

Personally, I'd prefer Macca to spend more time, at Saints, in a coaching/youth development role, and/or to spend a couple of years managing in the lower leagues, to prove himself, as it feels to me that he has even less experience than Callum did when he took the job on.

TL:DR

I see Macca as a future Saints manager, and will fully back him when that time comes, just not sure now is the right time for either party.

^The above is a copy/paste of what I posted on another forum; I'll add another couple of points I missed:

As many have said, would CD have us safe now, with two games to spare? Maybe he would have done it, but I doubt it. When Macca was given interim role, my first thought was that 'He'll put a (much needed) rocket up their arses!' and that seems to have happened.

Although Macca, eh, seems, eh, a bit, eh, nervous, eh, in his interviews, he talks properly about what he has in mind, and also doesn't seem to shy away from criticism where it's due.

We are safe, but he still wants us to win the remaining games. I like that positivity.

He has said the young players will get a chance - if they earn it; that's a good attitude.

My TL:DR summary above still stands, I can see Macca as a future manager, he looks like he has what it takes, but maybe just not there yet?

Excellent summary of the situation.

What's TL:DR though? Maybe I'm being thick.

[Linky]

I actually think these last games are going to make it or break it for him.

Four points from these last two games, and I think the job is his. Zero or one point, and there's no chance. That's tough on him because players will be exhausted and thinking that the job is done for the most part.

A lot will depend on the sale of the club.

[Shipa]

1 hour ago, Shibbydoo said:

Excellent summary of the situation.

What's TL:DR though? Maybe I'm being thick.

It means Too long:didn't read. It was first used to criticise posts which were too long and boring, but in this instance I've used it so that if someone found it such, and scrolled down, they would see a brief summary.

[saintgscot]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:18 PM, GOB10 said:

ffs why are our fans so flip flop! macca has done nothing to warrent getting this as his first job. he and davidson were both the problem. Ffs behave! 

From what I heard it’s been night and day for players under Macca. For example in March the team got 18 days off under Davidson. Fair enough if doing well but when on a bad run. Macca has the doing a drill then do it again. Maybe he was held back by Davidson 

[saintgscot]

I still want Ian Holloway as manager. MacLean as assistant. But not sure Holloway interviews come across good at a family friendly club. 

[Shipa]

12 minutes ago, saintgscot said:

From what I heard it’s been night and day for players under Macca. For example in March the team got 18 days off under Davidson. Fair enough if doing well but when on a bad run. Macca has the doing a drill then do it again. Maybe he was held back by Davidson 

When Davidson was assistant under Tommy, you could see him in the dugout, speaking to the players and speaking to the boss; you knew there was a sub coming because Callum had the paperwork out.

Macca under Davidson was often standing off to the side with his arms tightly folded, seemingly little communication. That suggests to me that their attitudes, and their ideas of how to get the best out of the players, were often not aligned.

[MySpazz]

He has equiped himself. 
See if he can keep it going - offer him the job.

[blueheaven]

17 hours ago, garydavidson said:

Ouch!

Liked this quote from Macca: “I don’t want to sit in when we are winning by 1 goal, I want to go for the throat and win by 2 or 3. I would be worried if we were not creating chances, I wont fault anyone for getting into the right areas, we just have to make sure and finish them off."

https://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/news/article/steven-macleans-thoughts-on-the-final-two-games

I think this proves that assistant managers often have a completely different attitude and approach to the managers they work under, and will handle things in their own way if given the chance. In a way we also saw that when Lomas went and his assistant, Wright, took over.

Shows that fans can be wide of the mark when suggesting a sacked manager's assistant should be sacked too, due to them being "part of the problem" etc etc. Macca was doing as instructed under Davidson. Now he's trying to do it his way.

[That_Dave]

A good assistant manager will usually be very different in style to the manager. You don't want a Yes Man who thinks the same way as you. You want someone who sees the game very different, suggests very different ideas and is able to give advice or thoughts you'd never come up with. Generally, very attacking managers need someone more defensive to reign them in, whilst very defensive managers needs someone more attacking to develop more going forward.

A good assistant will know lots of their ideas will be ignored, but feel the ones which are included are the things which give teams that little extra bit of spark which is needed.

The Graham Taylor and Phil Neal documentary back in the 90s showed just how useless having a Yes Man for your assistant is. They thought the same, and produced a truly dreadful side as a result.

[Cagey]

You need a manager who will listen and discuss with assistant throughout the game. Didn't see much of that with Saints.

[Broggy Man]

Saints are hard to watch

could do better

Edited May 23, 2023 by Broggy Man

[Shibbydoo]

20 hours ago, Shipa said:

It means Too long:didn't read. It was first used to criticise posts which were too long and boring, but in this instance I've used it so that if someone found it such, and scrolled down, they would see a brief summary.

Now I know. 

Ta!

[Setting Son]

On 5/23/2023 at 11:23 AM, That_Dave said:

A good assistant manager will usually be very different in style to the manager. You don't want a Yes Man who thinks the same way as you. You want someone who sees the game very different, suggests very different ideas and is able to give advice or thoughts you'd never come up with. Generally, very attacking managers need someone more defensive to reign them in, whilst very defensive managers needs someone more attacking to develop more going forward.

A good assistant will know lots of their ideas will be ignored, but feel the ones which are included are the things which give teams that little extra bit of spark which is needed.

The Graham Taylor and Phil Neal documentary back in the 90s showed just how useless having a Yes Man for your assistant is. They thought the same, and produced a truly dreadful side as a result.

How do you see the Macca/Craig duo 

[tucker]

Article in the Daily record saying Jody Morris would be interested in the saints job but no one been in touch at present 

[Cagey]

18 minutes ago, tucker said:

Article in the Daily record saying Jody Morris would be interested in the saints job but no one been in touch at present 

I am sure he can apply. I don't think Saints will have anyone in mind to offer the job apart from Macca.

[rik2304]

42 minutes ago, tucker said:

Article in the Daily record saying Jody Morris would be interested in the saints job but no one been in touch at present 

Yeah. He should be applying then if he fancies surely.

[pezza70]

6 hours ago, rik2304 said:

Yeah. He should be applying then if he fancies surely.

I heard he said Steve Brown has his number, if it was me I’d be ringing Steve for a chat.

[blueheaven]

You can read the Jody quotes here: https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/23544195.jody-morris-quizzed-st-johnstone-managerial-vacancy/

He doesn't say anything about wanting the job, and given his comments about needing to know who is in charge and what's going on behind the scenes, I get the impression it probably wouldn't suit him anyway.

[Aitchy]

I think given the fact there is no imminent chance of the club being sold and that plans are already underway regarding new faces becoming board members that we will likely see Macca given a short term contract very soon.

I am comfortable with that now. Its evident that the players have bought into his methods and he has come across well in the media and we have started to see signs of more attacking football and the also the introduction of Ballantyne and Sinclair. I would much rather have Macca and Liam Craig in place moving forward rather than some of the "usual faces" in Scottish football. He knows the current squad and will have his thoughts on what we need for next season. 

[Brian Potter]

I don’t get the whole “he used to play for us so he should be our manager” argument. 

Would much rather hire someone based on their managerial ability and not their playing career. Appointments shouldn’t be made based on an emotional attachment with a club. 

[Brian Potter]

15 minutes ago, Brian Potter said:

I don’t get the whole “he used to play for us so he should be our manager” argument. 

Would much rather hire someone based on their managerial ability and not their playing career. Appointments shouldn’t be made based on an emotional attachment with a club. 

This is in relation to Jody Morris btw. 

[garydavidson]

 

[blueheaven]

I remain unconvinced by Macca but do think when you start to whittle down the likely alternatives, he possibly becomes as good a candidate as any.

With the club up for sale we're not going to spend money on poaching someone who's under contract with another club, and we're unlikely to tempt anyone to relocate from abroad or down south. That immediately wipes out a lot of candidates we might have gone for under normal circumstances. It's never been the Browns' style to go for an experienced, out-of-work manager who's have been round the block (e.g. John Hughes). So that really leaves us looking at young Scotland-based managers looking for a good first or second job. Macca falls into that category and has a big advantage over most of the others, in that he's already here and working with the squad, and understands the club's situation. Assume he's probably also willing to take what might only be a one-year contract, in order to prove himself.

If it is going to be Macca, the club needs to get on with it and do it now so he has as much planning time for next season as possible.

[pezza70]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

I remain unconvinced by Macca but do think when you start to whittle down the likely alternatives, he possibly becomes as good a candidate as any.

With the club up for sale we're not going to spend money on poaching someone who's under contract with another club, and we're unlikely to tempt anyone to relocate from abroad or down south. That immediately wipes out a lot of candidates we might have gone for under normal circumstances. It's never been the Browns' style to go for an experienced, out-of-work manager who's have been round the block (e.g. John Hughes). So that really leaves us looking at young Scotland-based managers looking for a good first or second job. Macca falls into that category and has a big advantage over most of the others, in that he's already here and working with the squad, and understands the club's situation. Assume he's probably also willing to take what might only be a one-year contract, in order to prove himself.

If it is going to be Macca, the club needs to get on with it and do it now so he has as much planning time for next season as possible.

So if that box is ticked, next up should be the pitch maintenance there is no play off excuse now either