Yes Or Naw?

[Saintdunc]

Ok, I'll bite... In their current guise, Labour won't get elected in a long time, if ever. Labour has alienated a lot of it's core voters over the recent past, and for them then to side with the Tories (and allowing themselves to be set up as some kind of human shield for Cameron) has pushed even more away. Being free of London control can only be a good thing for the Scottish Labour Party as distancing themselves from that fanny Miliband can't be a bad thing. I'd also reckon they're going to have to completely rediscover their ideological roots if they're to make a comeback up here. If Radical had the structure in place to go down the route of fielding candidates however, Labour could be on a sticky wicket. RIC has done a hell of a lot of impressive work in the schemes during the referendum, and are perfectly placed to pick up disaffected Labour voters should they be in a position to stand.

 

Love them or loathe them, the SNP have a pretty good record of delivering even as a minority administration and that went a long way to securing the outright majority in 2011. They were also helped by an utterly God-awful negative Labour campaign and Lib-Dems who had comitted the cardinal sin of hopping into bed with the Toxic Tories down south. Whether the SNP's dominance continues in the future, who knows, I'm not Mystic Meg, but I'd envisage the first Scottish Parliament post-indy being more similar to the "rainbow" first Parliament post-devolution.

 

If you're not voting to "punish" a Westminster party, there's more likelihood of you voting for who you really want to. In this regard, Labour will have 2 years to get their shit together, otherwise, if Radical are able to stand and take up the baton of the left, Labour are finished in my opinion. The Tories of course are completely toxic, but total separation from London couldn't be anything other than beneficial for them. The big winners post-indy could be the Greens, especially on the regional vote, but whether the SSP can stop in-fighting long enough to do anything is debatable. Who knows whatever other parties might emerge in an independent Scottish Parliament, but the population is politicised like never before, and accepting the status quo without question is gone for good.

 

Is a Yes vote a vote for Salmond? That depends who you ask. Naws will say it is, because we're all "nationalists" in their eyes, despite the SNP only having a membership of about 25,000 or so. That doesn't matter; we're all Nats or 'cybernats'. Me? I wouldn't consider myself a natural SNP voter although I have voted for them both tactically and through choice on different occasions. Yes the SNP probably will win again in 2016, but that's primarilly down to their relative strength and the weakness of the rest. Their real test will come in 2021.

Irrespective of the referendum vote, and any result at future elections, there is room only for one party at the table. The Labour party is dead in the water in Scotland and you all know it and there is no credible alternative. If you are happy with this then vote to sever ties. Kevin Bridges, on live at the referendum, last night, jokingly commented that Scots felt that a Yes vote was a kick up the **** to England because, using the sporting connection, it would mean defeat for the Auld Enemy, or words to that effect. This is true though is it not? Every time I watch any sporting contest involving Scotland and England or England against anyone I adopt that nation as my own hoping for humiliation at the very least.

To be honest I quite like the idea of a bid for freedom but imo it is too great a risk. Vote with your head not your heart.

[jazzsaint]

[sixties saintee]

At the end of the day it is down to the people of Scotland as I said previously I feel not enough Information given out for the people to decide, in the small snippets we get down here on the news that seamed to me the older generation were saying the same thing. This debate on here should have been at least 2/3 years ago with everything out in the open from both sides.

 

As a Scot my heart is telling me YES what if , but my head says no.

 

I am a Socialist and very much a Left winger and was a Staunch Labour Party member up until bLIAR was elected, from 95 we were told by the Big Guns speakers at Constituency meetings not to make a noise and when we were elected Utopia beckoned sadly History proved otherwise, when these same speakers or there puppets came to speak to us I challenged them and they denied saying it.

 

I eventually ripped up my Labour Party card in 2007, the same things came to mind when the big guns were started to be wheeled out over Independance I now dont believe a word any of them say now.

 

Im glad I do not have the Vote as I would not know which way.

[Saintdunc]

Ok, to lighten this up as I am getting nowhere, I have a few serious questions!

Will there still be a Team GB at the Olympics?

Will Scotland be part of Great Britain or is that the same question?

Will you get the BBC for free?

Will it will mean the end of the British Lions?

Will this mean that Celtic are more likely to remain in a Scottish League therefore dominating Scottish football forever? Apart from The Scottish Cup that is!

Institutions similar to Royal Mail, DVLA, HMRC etc will have to be created will they not?

[jazzsaint]

So, if we really are better together then why does Osborne feel the need to offer us more powers the day after a poll shows the yes campaign to be in the lead.

So obviously it's England that needs us to be better together not the other way round.

#desperate

[auld reekie saint]

At the end of the day it is down to the people of Scotland as I said previously I feel not enough Information given out for the people to decide, in the small snippets we get down here on the news that seamed to me the older generation were saying the same thing. This debate on here should have been at least 2/3 years ago with everything out in the open from both sides.

 

As a Scot my heart is telling me YES what if , but my head says no.

 

I am a Socialist and very much a Left winger and was a Staunch Labour Party member up until bLIAR was elected, from 95 we were told by the Big Guns speakers at Constituency meetings not to make a noise and when we were elected Utopia beckoned sadly History proved otherwise, when these same speakers or there puppets came to speak to us I challenged them and they denied saying it.

 

I eventually ripped up my Labour Party card in 2007, the same things came to mind when the big guns were started to be wheeled out over Independance I now dont believe a word any of them say now.

 

Im glad I do not have the Vote as I would not know which way.

I would suggest the only chance of a socialist Govt is in an independent Scotland. The British Labour party is to the right of the SNP. I would expect in an independent Scotland a new Scottish Labour party would emerge with proper left wing values.

Your head and heart should say Yes.

[pitsjfc]

Ok, to lighten this up as I am getting nowhere, I have a few serious questions!

Will there still be a Team GB at the Olympics?

Will Scotland be part of Great Britain or is that the same question?

Will you get the BBC for free?

Will it will mean the end of the British Lions?

Will this mean that Celtic are more likely to remain in a Scottish League therefore dominating Scottish football forever? Apart from The Scottish Cup that is!

Institutions similar to Royal Mail, DVLA, HMRC etc will have to be created will they not?

Only British when we're winning, English wins always an English win

There's nothing great about Britain

You have to pay the BBC already unless you refuse to pay to support there corrupt pedo ring

Who actually cares about the British lions it's basically an England team with a couple of Welsh players

Celtic are shite who cares? It's already been stated by the FA several times the don't want either of the ugly sister as they would offer nothing to the league

Edited September 7, 2014 by pitsjfc

[Saintdunc]

Only British when we're winning, English wins always an English win

There's nothing great about Britain

You have to pay the BBC already unless you refuse to pay to support there corrupt pedo ring

Who actually cares about the British lions it's basically an England team with a couple of Welsh players

Celtic are shite who cares? It's already been stated by the FA several times the don't want either of the ugly sister as they would offer nothing to the league

I did try but there is the old downtrodden stuff again. It is so unfair, England this, England that! Get a bloody grip mate. Its not you against the rest of the world.

[Honest Saints Fan]

Ok, to lighten this up as I am getting nowhere, I have a few serious questions!

Will there still be a Team GB at the Olympics?

Will Scotland be part of Great Britain or is that the same question?

Will you get the BBC for free?

Will it will mean the end of the British Lions?

Will this mean that Celtic are more likely to remain in a Scottish League therefore dominating Scottish football forever? Apart from The Scottish Cup that is!

Institutions similar to Royal Mail, DVLA, HMRC etc will have to be created will they not?

Yes there will still be a team GB at the Olympics.

You will be able to keep your British passport and/or have a Scottish passport but will not remain part of GB.

Yes, like you get the BBC for free in many other countries all over the world. Scotland will have it's own national t.v station.

I don't care for the British Lions but yes they will remain.

Celtic will never be allowed in the English league set up no matter the result of the referendum.

Yes they will.

[Denzil]

Ok, to lighten this up as I am getting nowhere, I have a few serious questions!

Will there still be a Team GB at the Olympics?

Will Scotland be part of Great Britain or is that the same question?

Will you get the BBC for free?

Will it will mean the end of the British Lions?

Will this mean that Celtic are more likely to remain in a Scottish League therefore dominating Scottish football forever? Apart from The Scottish Cup that is!

Institutions similar to Royal Mail, DVLA, HMRC etc will have to be created will they not?

 

There will still be Team GB, but Scotland will compete in it's own right.

 

See above

 

No. BBC output will be included in the new Scottish TV Licence fee as happens in Eire. The big difference being instead of paying £300M for BBC, it will only cost IIRC around £28M. The rest would be spent on the Scottish State Broadcaster's output.

 

Don't care about egg-chasing, but as it's the British and Irish Lions, I don't see how it couldn't be the British, Scottish and Irish Lions, so no.

 

Don't give a monkey's about ra Sellick. You'd have to ask them.

 

As for the likes of Royal Mail, DVLA, HMRC etc, Royal Mail will be carved up as part of the settlement, a new Scottish DVLA will have to be created, and Revenue Scotland will be up and running by next year anyway, so it'll already be in place. Railtrack will also be carved up.

 

 

To add, having seen HSF's reply, Scots citizens born in the UK prior to independence will be entitled to a UK passport as well as a Scottish one. Those born in Scotland after indy will only be entitled to a Scottish one.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Denzil

[Saintdunc]

There will still be Team GB, but Scotland will compete in it's own right.

 

See above

 

No. BBC output will be included in the new Scottish TV Licence fee as happens in Eire. The big difference being instead of paying £300M for BBC, it will only cost IIRC around £28M. The rest would be spent on the Scottish State Broadcaster's output.

 

Don't care about egg-chasing, but as it's the British and Irish Lions, I don't see how it couldn't be the British, Scottish and Irish Lions, so no.

 

Don't give a monkey's about ra Sellick. You'd have to ask them.

 

As for the likes of Royal Mail, DVLA, HMRC etc, Royal Mail will be carved up as part of the settlement, a new Scottish DVLA will have to be created, and Revenue Scotland will be up and running by next year anyway, so it'll already be in place. Railtrack will also be carved up.

 

 

To add, having seen HSF's reply, Scots citizens born in the UK prior to independence will be entitled to a UK passport as well as a Scottish one. Those born in Scotland after indy will only be entitled to a Scottish one.

Thanks Denzil

[Denzil]

Irrespective of the referendum vote, and any result at future elections, there is room only for one party at the table. The Labour party is dead in the water in Scotland and you all know it and there is no credible alternative. If you are happy with this then vote to sever ties. Kevin Bridges, on live at the referendum, last night, jokingly commented that Scots felt that a Yes vote was a kick up the **** to England because, using the sporting connection, it would mean defeat for the Auld Enemy, or words to that effect. This is true though is it not? Every time I watch any sporting contest involving Scotland and England or England against anyone I adopt that nation as my own hoping for humiliation at the very least.

To be honest I quite like the idea of a bid for freedom but imo it is too great a risk. Vote with your head not your heart.

 

No, a unity "Team Scotland" negotiating team is to be set up for the negotiations. I don't know how they'll pick the best people for the job from politicians alone and would anticipate experts from outside politics will be included.

 

This thing about getting it right up England is something the Naws have been trying to stir up, but on the ground this isn't the case - there is even an English Scots for Yes group. Our beef is with Westminster, not the English and funnily enough, while in the past I've had a right good laugh at England's expense, I didn't actually care about how they did in Brazil. Perhaps that was more to do with the commentators not bumming up the expectations to unrealistic proportions, I just don't know, but when they went out it neither put me up nor down. Maybe I've got bigger fish to fry nowadays.

 

No-one's saying indy is going to be easy, but I'm 100% convinced it will be worth it.

[ancientsaint]

I have submitted my vote.

[Denzil]

So, if we really are better together then why does Osborne feel the need to offer us more powers the day after a poll shows the yes campaign to be in the lead.

So obviously it's England that needs us to be better together not the other way round.

#desperate

 

We're in purdah so regardless of what Gideon thinks he can do, they cannot make any new offers. The Unionist parties will renege on the unspecified additional powers just as they did in 1979, so the only way to secure all the powers is by voting Yes.

 

England desperately needs us to stay, that's why Sterling took a nosedive last week and why the Treasury had to put out a statement a few months ago to steady the markets regarding them honouring ALL of the national debt. These wobbles are nothing as to what is going to happen to the markets and Sterling tomorrow.

 

Personally, I'm not convinced sharing Sterling for any more that a few years would either work or be desirable. rUK cannot possibly service the levels of debt they have having lost 10% of their economy and 90% of their oil and gas revenue, and I could see them having to go to the IMF for a bale out before too long (be a bit ironic if we'd to bale them out). Being shackled to that is a bad move for Scotland IMO.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Denzil

[Saintdunc]

We're in purdah so regardless of what Gideon thinks he can do, they cannot make any new offers. The Unionist parties will renege on the unspecified additional powers just as they did in 1979, so the only way to secure all the powers is by voting Yes.

 

England desperately needs us to stay, that's why Sterling took a nosedive last week and why the Treasury had to put out a statement a few months ago to steady the markets regarding them honouring ALL of the national debt. These wobbles are nothing as to what is going to happen to the markets and Sterling tomorrow.

 

Personally, I'm not convinced sharing Sterling for any more that a few years would either work or be desirable. rUK cannot possibly service the levels of debt they have having lost 10% of their economy and 90% of their oil and gas revenue, and I could see them having to go to the IMF for a bale out before too long (be a bit ironic if we'd to bale them out). Being shackled to that is a bad move for Scotland IMO.

No, a unity "Team Scotland" negotiating team is to be set up for the negotiations. I don't know how they'll pick the best people for the job from politicians alone and would anticipate experts from outside politics will be included.

 

This thing about getting it right up England is something the Naws have been trying to stir up, but on the ground this isn't the case - there is even an English Scots for Yes group. Our beef is with Westminster, not the English and funnily enough, while in the past I've had a right good laugh at England's expense, I didn't actually care about how they did in Brazil. Perhaps that was more to do with the commentators not bumming up the expectations to unrealistic proportions, I just don't know, but when they went out it neither put me up nor down. Maybe I've got bigger fish to fry nowadays.

 

No-one's saying indy is going to be easy, but I'm 100% convinced it will be worth it.

Quality response.

[crieffsaintandy]

If we are going to be in such a mess financially as No would have us believe, why do they want us to stay, ummmm can't get the logic??!! And to hear about these financial woes from two most incompetent chancellors in history, Brown and Darling who just about bankrupt Britain, you have to have laugh they have the brass neck to lecture us

[saintee4life]

Punt salmond get denzil in.

[Denzil]

Punt salmond get denzil in.

 

[sixties saintee]

Reeks off desperation Gideon or is plan all along.

[Kyle]

Dream on guys, dream on. You will wake up in the middle of a nightmare. Brainwashed or brain dead? Had some decent debates on social media where my view has been exactly the same but the response I received was mature, measured, constructive and well thought out. On here the majority of you are just abusive sheep or knuckle drugging neanderthals.

See you all next time I am up to see Saints. I'll be the one wearing the Union Flag T-shirt which is the proper name for it by the way. Stay safe in the streets after the result because, as they say darn here, there will be trouble at t'mill!

 

You want a reasoned debate, yet call everyone voting yes either brain dead, brainwashed, deluded or anti English.

 

If you want a sensible, civil and reasonable debate on here, you'll get it if you act in that manner yourself.

 

The perception that yes voters are all stupid is a completely tired and false.

[glenrothes saintee]

From today's bbc website

Mr Darling stressed that no new powers would be put on the table beyond those already announced by the three main Westminster parties earlier this year.

He added: "The additional powers coming to the Scottish parliament were announced by the party leaders, north and south of the border, some time ago.

"People have said, 'Yes we want to know the timetable and the process' and that is something the government is going to announce this week.

"But remember this, this is a referendum on whether or not we stay on the United Kingdom. It is not a referendum on what further powers we are going to get. We are going to get them anyway, if we stay in the United Kingdom."

So in other wards, the no campaign leaders are yet again trying to con the people of Scotland. Vote YES and get FULL powers, not a few wee powers that probably won't change things and like devolution ( as per Willie Rennie) can be TAKEN AWAY by Westminster.

[Kyle]

Well, it worked in the 70s. Might as well break it out now.

[Wendy Saints]

Dream on guys, dream on. You will wake up in the middle of a nightmare. Brainwashed or brain dead? Had some decent debates on social media where my view has been exactly the same but the response I received was mature, measured, constructive and well thought out. On here the majority of you are just abusive sheep or knuckle drugging neanderthals.

See you all next time I am up to see Saints. I'll be the one wearing the Union Flag T-shirt which is the proper name for it by the way. Stay safe in the streets after the result because, as they say darn here, there will be trouble at t'mill!

Worry not fellow Saintee.... You have to remember this is a 'football fans forum' and Yes or No on the 19th Saints will have still won the Scottish cup!

I defend the right of free speech... after all we are lucky enough to live in a 'democracy' I may not agree with everything I read, however I do like to be respectful of other peoples views(right or wrong). I can't condone 'bad behaviour' but think on this one you have to take the high moral ground.

As for the union flag..as a fashion accessory it is very unforgiving... I am sure you would look much better in a Saltire ..haha

[rik2304]

Excited at the thought of us standing on our own  feet. People used to,( still do!), fight and die for independence but we can democratically choose to become our own, self-governed country. Cannot lose this momentous, history making opportunity to short-sighted, fear peddling, doom merchants.

Edited September 8, 2014 by rik2304

[Wendy Saints]

At the end of the day it is down to the people of Scotland as I said previously I feel not enough Information given out for the people to decide, in the small snippets we get down here on the news that seamed to me the older generation were saying the same thing. This debate on here should have been at least 2/3 years ago with everything out in the open from both sides.

 

As a Scot my heart is telling me YES what if , but my head says no.

 

I am a Socialist and very much a Left winger and was a Staunch Labour Party member up until bLIAR was elected, from 95 we were told by the Big Guns speakers at Constituency meetings not to make a noise and when we were elected Utopia beckoned sadly History proved otherwise, when these same speakers or there puppets came to speak to us I challenged them and they denied saying it.

 

I eventually ripped up my Labour Party card in 2007, the same things came to mind when the big guns were started to be wheeled out over Independance I now dont believe a word any of them say now.

 

Im glad I do not have the Vote as I would not know which way.

Of course it should be yes or else we in Scotland are hangers on, incapable of supporting ourselves...in other words parasites! I am none of these. The current government bemoans the fact we have a crippling welfare budget, and at every opportunity tells those reliant on welfare that they should be standing on their own 2 feet. Their social policy is to peel back the state. Why then should us Scots be vilified for wanting to do just that. So there we have it, suddenly it is wrong to want to fend for ourselves. Wake up Scotland! We are getting a chance of independence that no one has had to die for & there are still folk dithering!?