St.Johnstone V Motherwell 21st October

[Saintdunc]

6 hours ago, R.B.B:- Adz said:

Problem is defence. Considine and Gordon are so reactive, slow and panicked. Mitov is a good shot stopped but he is not a leader back there and those three are a bombscare anytime opposition play balls over the top or into our box rein wide areas. We desperately need to sign a prime centre-half more than any other position. A Jason Kerr, Steven Anderson, Dave MacKay in there tonight and we go on and win that match 3-0. 

 

Steven Anderson, became a legend but, in earlier years, he was scary if I remember. 

Andy Considine can't have that long left and Gordon misses Kerr and, dare I say it, McCart. 

Mitov might be happier if his defence were sound. 

January window awaits! We should be on the front foot when it opens. 

[sixties saintee]

Ran out o steam fir whit ever reason 2 nd half, could hae nicked it at end, but overall nae bad, bring on livi.

[Saintdunc]

1 hour ago, sixties saintee said:

Ran out o steam fir whit ever reason 2 nd half, could hae nicked it at end, but overall nae bad, bring on livi.

Not before we thrash Ross County on Saturday, Tam! 😊

[sixties saintee]

47 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

Not before we thrash Ross County on Saturday, Tam! 😊

Aye had it in ma heid it was livi

Edited November 8, 2023 by sixties saintee

[blueheaven]

I came away from that feeling really disappointed in Levein. At 2-0 up we were cruising and really all it should have taken was a bit of game management to hold on to three absolutely vital points. Instead, Motherwell made changes and came at us and we did nothing to respond to that. It was obvious they were coming back into the game before they got their goals and Levein basically just stood and watched it happen. After several years of watching Callum Davidson teams lose second-half goals because other teams adapted their play and we didn't, I really feel we need to see better from Levein. With his experience he should be more proactive and adaptable than that. It's that experience that he was brought here for after all.

Phillips should never have played 90 minutes as (aside from the fact that he was painfully out of position) he was walking on eggshells after picking up his booking. He really needs to stop flying into tackles and getting these needless yellows that can then impact on the whole game.

On the positive side I thought we were fantastic for much of the first half, and some of the end of the second half. We were knocking the ball around with some real confidence and it was brilliant to see our players actually moving around off the ball and looking for a pass. So often under Davidson and McLean it felt like everyone who didn't have the ball was just standing still. I think there's another level to this team and we've seen big signs of that in the last couple of games. If we can just sort out who plays wide right, we've got a cracking midfield with Smith, Sprangler and Carey who were all really turning it on. And what a difference it makes having a goalscorer like Nicky Clark. I'd still love to see Clark and May get some game time together as they were such a good partnership last season.

Quick prediction: we'll comfortably stay up.

 

[rik2304]

A lot of work for Levein and Kirk to build the teams confidence up again. 

[PerthSaint01]

Quite a bit to be positive about tbh. Another huge game Saturday but if we can get 3 points going into the international break, and then give Levein and Kirk two weeks to bed in ideas and work with the players then we’ll be in a decent place… and of course Levein will win at Tynecastle in the first game back.

[Setting Son]

18 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

I came away from that feeling really disappointed in Levein. At 2-0 up we were cruising and really all it should have taken was a bit of game management to hold on to three absolutely vital points. Instead, Motherwell made changes and came at us and we did nothing to respond to that. It was obvious they were coming back into the game before they got their goals and Levein basically just stood and watched it happen. After several years of watching Callum Davidson teams lose second-half goals because other teams adapted their play and we didn't, I really feel we need to see better from Levein. With his experience he should be more proactive and adaptable than that. It's that experience that he was brought here for after all.

Phillips should never have played 90 minutes as (aside from the fact that he was painfully out of position) he was walking on eggshells after picking up his booking. He really needs to stop flying into tackles and getting these needless yellows that can then impact on the whole game.

On the positive side I thought we were fantastic for much of the first half, and some of the end of the second half. We were knocking the ball around with some real confidence and it was brilliant to see our players actually moving around off the ball and looking for a pass. So often under Davidson and McLean it felt like everyone who didn't have the ball was just standing still. I think there's another level to this team and we've seen big signs of that in the last couple of games. If we can just sort out who plays wide right, we've got a cracking midfield with Smith, Sprangler and Carey who were all really turning it on. And what a difference it makes having a goalscorer like Nicky Clark. I'd still love to see Clark and May get some game time together as they were such a good partnership last season.

Quick prediction: we'll comfortably stay up.

 

Could’ve and maybe shouldn’t have won against Killie with the same second half performance. Obviously something the coaching staff will have to address. Could say the second half against the buddies was the same as well . 

[templeofsaints]

22 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Phillips should never have played 90 minutes as (aside from the fact that he was painfully out of position) he was walking on eggshells after picking up his booking. He really needs to stop flying into tackles and getting these needless yellows that can then impact on the whole game.

 

Agree about him not playing the 90 but I thought the booking was a harsh one especially given what the Well players were getting away with. I wonder if Dan is just picking up that sort of reputation and is likely to get booked with any tackle (but like Muzz).

[garydavidson]

43 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

On the positive side I thought we were fantastic for much of the first half, and some of the end of the second half. We were knocking the ball around with some real confidence and it was brilliant to see our players actually moving around off the ball and looking for a pass.

Unfortunately this totally disappeared from the start of the second half up until the last 5 or 10 minutes and looked just like the clueless lumbering of past reigns.

[garydavidson]

20 minutes ago, templeofsaints said:

Agree about him not playing the 90 but I thought the booking was a harsh one especially given what the Well players were getting away with. I wonder if Dan is just picking up that sort of reputation and is likely to get booked with any tackle (but like Muzz).

It was crazy the number of similar fouls they got away with, especially in that second half.

[SaintJet]

That felt like a loss after such a commanding performance in the first half. Some great performances throughout the team and I'm encouraged that we have the bones of a decent outfit but I can't help thinking we need to find some wide penetration somewhere and we definitely need to tighten up at the back - we got away with some slack play last night and could have lost the game which would have been crimminal.

Liam Gordon looked better last night and Levein will make him better. McGowan was tidy again and he'll be an important player for us until the new manager gets his style setteled. Conso is still a liability for being undone for pace but his nouse is invaluable. Philips - "wrecking Ball" is a great player for breaking up the game and holding off players but he'll need to adapt his style - he's like a rucker in rugy turning over possesion back to us but he's a walking red and we can't afford that. Again I'm hoping Levein will improve him.

Carey had his best game for us - loved his one touch interchange with with players - he'll get better when he knows his boundray and doesn't try to do everything. Smith for me was MOTM - I like him more and more and he's growing in confidence every game.

I hope the new manager realises that we need to get Kane a longer contract sharpish - if he's on the market in January loads of bottom feeders will snap him up on a two year contract. Kane's work off the ball is incredible and he'll get us goals if he gets service from out wide.

Clark confirmed again how important he is for us as a natural goal scorer. I can see May getting a lift with the new manager as well he still works his nut off looking for scraps.

As good as that was last night we'll need to be better on Saturday.

 

[ex-montrosesaintee]

Disappointing result in the end, but it felt like Levein was watching the McLean/Cleland approach.  I don't think any sensible manager would try to introduce a new approach in the 24 hours leading up to a game, especially when one of the key issues seems to be players lacking individual confidence, as well as confidence in the system.

Going forward I think the first 45 minutes and the last 10 minutes gives Levein and Kirk an excellent platform to build from, and not having made radical changes makes it easy for them to dismiss the other 35 minutes as 'the old St Johnstone' and move forwards.

I'm feeling pretty positive and think we'll see an altogether better 90 minute performance that the weekend.

[Cagey]

Dan should have been subbed at half time as he was on a booking and his style makes him liable to another one. He also gave the ball away and his passes were too long or too short. He was out of position though and you can't fault him for effort.

Think there should have been other subs earlier when it looked like We'll we're on top.

Funny to see ,in the second half the new management team on touchline discussing tactics whils Clellend and Hinchy consulted their A4 in the dugout.

Expect on Saturday we will see new management's team selection and tactics and will be able to judge

[Linky]

I think there were some real positives - movement was better, positioning was better, we were more positive. Some players are really starting to look good, like Smith. You could see Levein telling them to keep the ball on the floor, stay calm, pass it around, don't lose possession. This was working really well.

In the second half we got tired, panicked and forgot all of that.

[SaintJet]

Watched the brief Highlights on the Beeb and the second goal was awful. As soon as they broke down our left we were exposed and Conso was left flapping in the slipstream of the 'Well goal scorer.

We need to get toget our right side fixed at the back. Ross will be all over that and targeting their attacks down there.

Levein will know this of course and in the limited time he has I would expect him to figure something out.

[The Kinross Saint]

Really hard to take. Losing a two goal lead always is. I thought we were fine in the first half despite trying our best to play motherwell in with some bizarre passes at the back. Nicky Clark seems to be the only St Johnstone player who can win a header in an attacking situation, we need him to get fit and stay fit however unlikely that is.

Kane was also his usual presence and he’s another we need to have any kind of outlet. May is finished, he’s more interested in pathetic play acting and he just offers nothing. His headed chance towards the end was really poorly taken.
 

I get the frustration at the lack of substitutions but we really have nothing on the bench, we’re so poor that we essentially are trying to stay up on the assumption that we keep a starting 11 fit. 
 

I really like Smith and Sprangler but they both seemed to panic towards the end and the passing got slacker and slacker. They do give me hope for the future though. Phillips is a walking red card especially with VAR desperate to judge on still images. 
 

Saturday is huge and a must win.

[Gekko]

I forgot about this until I saw it in the highlights.

I now remember that I was going to make a point of mentioning it.

Robinson clearing off the line in the first half, as acknowledged by Mitov.

It's in the video below at around 2 minutes.

Nobody's mentioned Robinson much from this game, but he really is getting better and better with each match.

 

[Gekko]

While I'm here, I wanted to add, that I don't think it's a coincidence that the defence has shored up and been more organised since McGowan has come back.

He seems to get the best out of Gordon and is an experienced head in there.

For what it's worth, if you want to see a different view of the game, here's the effort from the Motherwell media team.

I think the filter with the scratches etc. is unnecessary, but I like the fact that they interview the players as soon as they finish.

 

[Smarmy Arab]

Looked like a good watch, lots of positives.  Loads of games to go, and one of the tightest leagues I can remember.  I seem to remember that when Levein was at Hearts the first time his side went 2 years without loosing a goal from a corner/set piece (???).  I also remember from his time at Tannadice 0-0 halftime is always a solid bet, but they would have a go in the 2nd half.

Can't help thinking Kane and Clark injuries was a major factor in the last 2 managers getting the sack, Saints look a very different proposition with those two on the park.  

[blueheaven]

Not sure how our attacking stats looked for this game compared to others this season, but think you can really see from those highlights that we're creating lots of good, different types of chances now. Aside from the actual goals, the one where Kane wins the ball from the Well defender and runs through on goal (and might have broken clear if he was that little bit sharper); Smith creating that volley for himself; Smith playing the ball down the wing for Carey to put the defender on his arse and then cross in for May to head just over. All really encouraging stuff and shows what some of these players are capable of. A few weeks ago I don't think we'd have done any of that stuff. It feels like Smith's ability to play a through-ball is at the heart of a lot of it too. I can barely remember seeing any of our midfielders playing through-balls over the last few seasons and I'm convinced that's been at the heart of a lot of our goalscoring issues.

[SaintJet]

13 hours ago, The Kinross Saint said:

Really hard to take. Losing a two goal lead always is. I thought we were fine in the first half despite trying our best to play motherwell in with some bizarre passes at the back. Nicky Clark seems to be the only St Johnstone player who can win a header in an attacking situation, we need him to get fit and stay fit however unlikely that is.

Kane was also his usual presence and he’s another we need to have any kind of outlet. May is finished, he’s more interested in pathetic play acting and he just offers nothing. His headed chance towards the end was really poorly taken.
 

I get the frustration at the lack of substitutions but we really have nothing on the bench, we’re so poor that we essentially are trying to stay up on the assumption that we keep a starting 11 fit. 
 

I really like Smith and Sprangler but they both seemed to panic towards the end and the passing got slacker and slacker. They do give me hope for the future though. Phillips is a walking red card especially with VAR desperate to judge on still images. 
 

Saturday is huge and a must win.

I think this so unfair on Steve May. He works hard in training everyday, always makes himeself avialable , just gets on with it and comes on and runs himself in to the ground with very little service.

I can guarantee that he if he was playing in a side that had plenty service to it's forwards he'd score barrowloads.

He's still a team player and if you watch him celebrating a goal even if he's in the dugout it confirms that he is still very much a Saint.

[Quarterback]

On 11/8/2023 at 5:50 AM, Saintdunc said:

Steven Anderson, became a legend but, in earlier years, he was scary if I remember. 

Andy Considine can't have that long left and Gordon misses Kerr and, dare I say it, McCart. 

Mitov might be happier if his defence were sound. 

January window awaits! We should be on the front foot when it opens. 

Looking at the game and starting from the back, we get the ball and quite a lot of times Mitov ends up giving  it back to their keeper to start an attack. Apart from Kane, May, Max and non of the advanced players are winning any flick-ons, that's giving an easy possession away. This has started from the as early as the Ross County game. We need to start by just playing out and get better starting positions. We look better when we are building up the play. 

Lack of goals and the personnel to do it has been a major factor here. Carey is an the obvious outlet in the team  but we need pace to get on the end of his ball.  Without goals any mistakes by the defence is looked as they lost the game. In the 4-0 loss Sprangler gave away a pass which led to one of the goals but the boys at the back get a lot of flack and even the loanees who weren't there when the club were busy building up a losing mentality in the summer.

We need to rally behind the boys and realise that we did preseason in the season.

[blueheaven]

29 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

I think this so unfair on Steve May. He works hard in training everyday, always makes himeself avialable , just gets on with it and comes on and runs himself in to the ground with very little service.

I can guarantee that he if he was playing in a side that had plenty service to it's forwards he'd score barrowloads.

He's still a team player and if you watch him celebrating a goal even if he's in the dugout it confirms that he is still very much a Saint.

Totally agree. Must be really frustrating for May that he's barely been played in a front two at all this season. Feels like when we play one up front, it's May. Whenever we switch to two up front, May is on the bench. Even on Tuesday night when he came on the other strikers had gone off.

We've always known he's pretty limited when he plays on his own but we saw last season how much better he was with Clark next to him. I'm fine with starting Kane and Clark on Saturday again, but if May comes on I'd love to see him paired up with Clark for a spell instead of on his own yet again.

[St. Paddy]

Are we writting jephcot off yet?

His previous stats suggest he is a natural scorer, hasn't done anything of any note yet.

Could be a case that one scrappy goal opens the flood gates.  Here's hoping.