Time for Levein to go

[akuram]

Sam McLelland is starring for united, why when we could use him?

[Glenshee]

6 hours ago, akuram said:

Sam McLelland is starring for united, why when we could use him?

Our coaches assessed that he was less competent than the ones we kept !!! Bad luck or poor judgement?

[garydavidson]

1 hour ago, Glenshee said:

Our coaches assessed that he was less competent than the ones we kept !!! Bad luck or poor judgement?

I think Levein actually said he had no idea about him so put him out on loan 😐

Reading between the lines I am guessing Dundee United were slightly taking advantage of that a wee bit as Goodwin had said he had tracked him in the past so maybe took advantage of the manager switch to put in an offer.

[blueheaven]

Levein's been here for six months and, other than a brief flurry of decent results and performances that dragged us off the bottom of the table, we haven't improved in the slightest. He hasn't managed to implement even the most basic gameplan or system to get us functioning, and the players still look unfit. In fact I think he's now at the point of taking us backwards from where we were when he arrived.

I wouldn't even have allowed him to give his latest dismal post-match interview. Our only chance of staying up as things stand is to get rid of him immediately and hope that we get enough of a short-term new manager bounce to keep us up. Put Cleland in charge for the remaining games, then start again in the summer.

[dave mc]

Can’t see it BH, 3 years contracts for two diddies to pay up isn’t Geoff’s way imo, though the cost of relegation would be far worse.

[blueheaven]

20 minutes ago, dave mc said:

Can’t see it BH, 3 years contracts for two diddies to pay up isn’t Geoff’s way imo, though the cost of relegation would be far worse.

I agree, but there's the root of the problem: Geoff Brown handing out a three-year contract to completely the wrong manager, after the club had already given a three-year contract to a different wrong manager just a few months earlier. The people running our club just lurch from one crap decision to the next.

I totally get that we wanted someone with experience, but for me the St Johnstone manager should always be someone who is up-and-coming and has ambitions to move higher, whether that's with Saints or effectively by using Saints as a stepping stone. They should be hungry and determined and have bags of new ideas they're desperate to try. They should be excited to come to our club and they should recognise it for the opportunity it is; not just act as if they're here to do us a favour.

I've heard a lot of people mentioning Rhys McCabe and I've no idea if he's good enough or ready to step up, but to me he ticks a lot more of the above boxes than Levein does.

Did Saints even interview anyone fitting that description, and properly consider our options, or did we just look at Martindale (I mean, FFS) and then go straight to Levein?

I can't help but think a half-arsed process has left us with a half-arsed manager, and Geoff Brown needs to carry the responsibility for that.

 

[Cagey]

13 minutes ago, dave mc said:

Can’t see it BH, 3 years contracts for two diddies to pay up isn’t Geoff’s way imo, though the cost of relegation would be far worse.

Geoff should pay him off personally as it was his stupid mistake to give him the job.

[Gas Monkey]

I thought it was a two year deal??

[blueheaven]

Just now, Gas Monkey said:

I thought it was a two year deal??

It's until May 2026 - so covers most of this season plus the next two seasons.

[Gas Monkey]

Just now, blueheaven said:

It's until May 2026 - so covers most of this season plus the next two seasons.

Eeeeek

[pezza70]

I always thought the plan was for CL to move to the front office and hand the reigns to Kirk.

i thought read that somewhere but i might be wrong too on that?

[Cagey]

8 hours ago, pezza70 said:

I always thought the plan was for CL to move to the front office and hand the reigns to Kirk.

i thought read that somewhere but i might be wrong too on that?

I think it was a rumour on here.

Hope to **** it's not true , he ****ed up Hearts in that role before he ****ed them up on the pitch.

How did he get Saints job. He was at McDiarmid park watching his prodigy when Geoff Brown saw him and said, you used to be a decent manager 20 years ago do you fancy the Saints job , it will save me doing interviews.

[Radford 72]

That bullshit about only being at the Kilmarnock game to watch Kucheriavyi (and how he was about to leave but decided just to hang around - for the full 90 minutes) was a bad start for Levein. When you start off lying because it creates a good soundbite then it doesn't exactly foster a feeling of trust.

He's shown no enthusiasm for this job since he got it.

[blueheaven]

8 hours ago, pezza70 said:

I always thought the plan was for CL to move to the front office and hand the reigns to Kirk.

i thought read that somewhere but i might be wrong too on that?

May well be true but as far as I know that's just speculation from fans. But surely even Saints wouldn't read the room badly enough to actually promote the pair of them with the way things are at the moment.

 

19 minutes ago, Cagey said:

How did he get Saints job. He was at McDiarmid park watching his prodigy when Geoff Brown saw him and said, you used to be a decent manager 20 years ago do you fancy the Saints job , it will save me doing interviews.

What I find incredible is that this is exactly the line Levein came out with when he got appointed. It makes everyone involved look awful.

Speaking of Geoff Brown, we must be just about due another interview in the Courier where he moans about money and has a dig at the fans for not shelling out on over-priced tickets for eye-bleeding football every week. It's been a few months since the last one.

Looking forward to the fans somehow getting the blame when we get relegated and the sale of the club falls through.

[Dooj]

21 hours ago, Cagey said:

Geoff should pay him off personally as it was his stupid mistake to give him the job.

Just because it hasn't worked out (though, in fairness, we've not been relegated yet) doesn't mean it was a bad decision. There were plenty folks calling for a more experienced manager given the situation that we were in, and that it hadn't worked out for the inexperienced-but-hungry Macca. If Geoff had appointed another inexperienced manager and we got relegated, we would just have had everyone complaining that he should have gone for an experienced manager. 

Clearly there are lots of things at Saints that needs to be sorted, but using hindsight to have a go at Geoff isn't the way to get the fans' voice heard.

[sixties saintee]

Due you think he will turn up at the Potys, I hope so.

[Cagey]

22 minutes ago, Dooj said:

Just because it hasn't worked out (though, in fairness, we've not been relegated yet) doesn't mean it was a bad decision. There were plenty folks calling for a more experienced manager given the situation that we were in, and that it hadn't worked out for the inexperienced-but-hungry Macca. If Geoff had appointed another inexperienced manager and we got relegated, we would just have had everyone complaining that he should have gone for an experienced manager. 

Clearly there are lots of things at Saints that needs to be sorted, but using hindsight to have a go at Geoff isn't the way to get the fans' voice heard.

It wasn't a bad decision it was a horrendous decision.

I have been a cheerleader for Geoff since he took over and thought he should have been more recognised for what he has done for Saints and Perth but hate to see all that tarnished by what I thought was a bad decision and now think it was a horrendous decision.

 

[blueheaven]

30 minutes ago, Dooj said:

Just because it hasn't worked out (though, in fairness, we've not been relegated yet) doesn't mean it was a bad decision. There were plenty folks calling for a more experienced manager given the situation that we were in, and that it hadn't worked out for the inexperienced-but-hungry Macca. If Geoff had appointed another inexperienced manager and we got relegated, we would just have had everyone complaining that he should have gone for an experienced manager. 

Clearly there are lots of things at Saints that needs to be sorted, but using hindsight to have a go at Geoff isn't the way to get the fans' voice heard.

I'm not sure you can put it down to hindsight when a lot of people were raising red flags with the appointment at the time it happened. Personally I felt it was a disappointing appointment from the club but I was happy to give him a chance and see how things unfolded (which is pretty much the same way I felt when Macca got the job). At the very least, it should have been a short-term appointment to see how things went. Handing him a three-year contract was just an appallingly bad decision.

I also think there's got to be some middle ground between appointing someone with no experience at all, and appointing someone who is at the very end of their managerial career (especially when it's someone who hasn't been successful at our level for a long, long time - I mean, it's not as if we're talking about Roy Hodgson here). I think someone who has done well in a first or second job, and shown signs of promise and ambition, would be a far better fit for Saints. Had we gone for someone like that and they'd started to implement a playing style and a plan for the future, but ultimately still got us relegated (basically what Sturrock did when we appointed him in similar circumstances), I think people would have more patience with that and be willing to give that new guy more time to bring us back up.

But for me Levein has always just looked like a really poor fit and a bad appointment and ultimately that's the fault of the person who appointed him.

I get that we haven't actually been relegated yet and as things stand we're 10th in the league, but we're clearly on a downward trajectory at the moment. Do we seriously just sit and wait for the situation to move past the point of no return, or do we act now and at least try to fix it?

 

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

I also think there's got to be some middle ground between appointing someone with no experience at all, and appointing someone who is at the very end of their managerial career 

He virtually ended his managerial career a decade ago.

He was sacked by Scotland 12 years, became Hearts DOF 2 years later and spoke about enjoying that role and helping young managers develop (Robbie Neilson then Ian Cathro), then became manager again at Hearts on 2017, sacked in 2019, and nothing in the 4 years between that us apart from "advising" Brechin.

[garydavidson]

I highlighted it at the time but going to the press with this line really highlights what we are seeing: "I want to have another go at it, throw the dice and see if, in the latter stages of my career, I can make a difference to St Johnstone and get them up the league".

Has he already decided he can't?

[RandomGuy]

4 minutes ago, garydavidson said:

I highlighted it at the time but going to the press with this line really highlights what we are seeing: "I want to have another go at it, throw the dice and see if, in the latter stages of my career, I can make a difference to St Johnstone and get them up the league".

Has he already decided he can't?

You wonder if, like Neil Warnock at Aberdeen, you realise after years of no real pressure and a punditry job that still let's you be "in the game", it's quite hard to deal with being a full time manager and the criticism/pressure that brings so you just bail.

There's still rumours that Andy Kirk decides most of the tactical stuff and training and Levein just makes the final call. If he's not interested/hearts not in it, then he could easily just be saying yes to Kirks thoughts

 

[MySpazz]

So depressing......I only watch his interviews on the ground floor of the house cos if i watch them upstairs there's a danger i'll throw myself out of the window. 

[Linky]

My hope is that Kirk is making most of the decisions, and Levein will have had enough and say "right, I'm in charge until the end of the season", and we'll see some progress. But I won't hold my breath.

It's really hard to judge. Things aren't going well, but I think we're doing much better than if MacLean hadn't have been sacked, and better than if Davidson had stayed for this season. But is Levein doing better than some of the other options that might have applied for the job?

[Willie Peat]

5 hours ago, Dooj said:

Just because it hasn't worked out (though, in fairness, we've not been relegated yet) doesn't mean it was a bad decision. There were plenty folks calling for a more experienced manager given the situation that we were in, and that it hadn't worked out for the inexperienced-but-hungry Macca. If Geoff had appointed another inexperienced manager and we got relegated, we would just have had everyone complaining that he should have gone for an experienced manager. 

Clearly there are lots of things at Saints that needs to be sorted, but using hindsight to have a go at Geoff isn't the way to get the fans' voice heard.

If the thinking was to bring in a retired experienced manager then they might have been better bringing back Alex Totten!   At least we would have got some passion.

[Strawman]

On 4/30/2024 at 9:00 AM, Radford 72 said:

That bullshit about only being at the Kilmarnock game to watch Kucheriavyi (and how he was about to leave but decided just to hang around - for the full 90 minutes) was a bad start for Levein. When you start off lying because it creates a good soundbite then it doesn't exactly foster a feeling of trust.

He's shown no enthusiasm for this job since he got it.

I said this at the time and again recently, within a day of him taking over he already had a red flag as far as I was concerned.

It was so obviously a lie that made me wonder why he even said it.

Everything he says I don’t trust, if he told me it was raining I’d still go to the window and check for myself.

In my opinion, he acts like he’s doing us a massive favour by being here, doesn’t care about the fans or St Johnstone and all he’s doing is collecting stories for doing after dinner talks to fund his retirement.

Think it was in the same interview he talked about taking the job because of the people, ie Stan and Geoff, in his head I think he thinks he’s just helping two pals out.

No talk of how we are a great wee club, 15 years established in top league, won cups, qualified for Europe etc and how he thinks he can get us back there. 
 

Nobody is saying that it’s easy to do these things but I want a manager that’s at least willing to try.