Scottish cup 2022/23

[blueheaven]

15 hours ago, SaintJet said:

What do you want him to say? They have screwed up and they know it and they know the backlash.

It doesn't make it right but it acknowledges the mistakes.

If there is a repeat of this policy, and you can bet your mortgage everyone is going to be watching, you will have a point but it's done now.

I don't get why there are people still wanting to tear the club to bits.

Personally I felt the statement came across as a bit half-hearted (which possibly isn't surprising given Steve Brown's growing detachment from things). It's as if he's grudgingly saying the bare minimum that he feels (or has been told) he needs to say to appease the supporters. The acceptance of mistakes made, and commitment to take these mistakes into account with future decisions, are good things, but it just all feels a bit way too little, very much too late.

You ask what we'd want him to say. Here are a few suggestions:

• Just say it properly, right at the start of the announcement: We've made some mistakes. We're sorry. We promise we'll do better. It's really not that hard to just apologise properly, and it would regain both him and the club a bit of credit among the fans.
• Explain to the support why these decisions were taken, and explain why that decision was followed by nearly 20 days of silence.
• Accept that communication needs to improve - and, to that end, announce a meet-the-board evening to allow fans the opportunity to ask questions face to face. Questions about ticket arrangements, about the sale of the club, about anything we want. Other clubs do this.
• Announce that, by way of apology, there will be a cut-price match later in the season. Ideally the Hibs game in April. Let fans in for a fiver in all four stands, which is what Hibs have done for Saints fans twice recently with nothing in return. That's our last game before the split, could be an important match, and could be a way of getting a really big crowd in, which is great for everyone.
• Season ticket holders could be offered the option of £15 off next season's renewal, to make up for them not seeing the benefit from a cut-price match (although personally, as a season ticket holder, I wouldn't see this as necessary and probably wouldn't take up the option).

They didn't necessarily need to say all of the above, but these are just suggestions of things they could have said that would have felt like far more of a goodwill gesture, far more of an apology, and far more of a changing of previous ways. Had they said any of the above, I think they'd be seeing a spike in sales for Saturday's game right now.

As it is, I'm personally pretty sceptical that anything much is really going to change, especially as the chairman is on the way out anyway, so any long-term promises are really going to be pretty meaningless.

 

[SaintJet]

12 hours ago, Sergei said:

I can only take it you are very gullible or a mate of Steve Brown. 

I'd like to think that at my age of life my gullible years are behind me. I'm not  a friend of Steve Brown but I know him relatively well from business. No wonder he's had enough.

 

[Havana Saint]

What this whole sorry episode has shown in absolute crystal clarity, is that Brown has already left the Chair role mentally, whilst physically still being in position. This does not serve St Johnstone FC well at all.

[blueheaven]

14 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

Kind of what I was thinking, but then it’s been closed even when there’s no away support in the North. Guess it doesn’t really matter either way. Been told at work Rangers have been given more seats in the Main Stand now. Not sure if that’s somebody just taking the piss or not…

I don't think that's the case about Rangers getting tickets in the Main Stands. The whole stand is still on sale to Saints fans if you go to the ticketing website. If they were to put Rangers fans in there they'd need to move Saints fans who have bought tickets. I don't think even Saints would be tone-deaf enough to do that. And I don't think they'd be able to organise that at this late stage even if they wanted to.

Yesterday I had a rough count of tickets sold just before the announcement was made, and it was at around 310. Just counted again and it seems to be at around 370. Not sure if that's the impact of the announcement or if those people would have bought tickets late anyway. I'll be pretty surprised if it goes over 500.

 

 

 

[SaintJet]

10 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

Personally I felt the statement came across as a bit half-hearted (which possibly isn't surprising given Steve Brown's growing detachment from things). It's as if he's grudgingly saying the bare minimum that he feels (or has been told) he needs to say to appease the supporters. The acceptance of mistakes made, and commitment to take these mistakes into account with future decisions, are good things, but it just all feels a bit way too little, very much too late.

You ask what we'd want him to say. Here are a few suggestions:

• Just say it properly, right at the start of the announcement: We've made some mistakes. We're sorry. We promise we'll do better. It's really not that hard to just apologise properly, and it would regain both him and the club a bit of credit among the fans.
• Explain to the support why these decisions were taken, and explain why that decision was followed by nearly 20 days of silence.
• Accept that communication needs to improve - and, to that end, announce a meet-the-board evening to allow fans the opportunity to ask questions face to face. Questions about ticket arrangements, about the sale of the club, about anything we want. Other clubs do this.
• Announce that, by way of apology, there will be a cut-price match later in the season. Ideally the Hibs game in April. Let fans in for a fiver in all four stands, which is what Hibs have done for Saints fans twice recently with nothing in return. That's our last game before the split, could be an important match, and could be a way of getting a really big crowd in, which is great for everyone.
• Season ticket holders could be offered the option of £15 off next season's renewal, to make up for them not seeing the benefit from a cut-price match (although personally, as a season ticket holder, I wouldn't see this as necessary and probably wouldn't take up the option).

They didn't necessarily need to say all of the above, but these are just suggestions of things they could have said that would have felt like far more of a goodwill gesture, far more of an apology, and far more of a changing of previous ways. Had they said any of the above, I think they'd be seeing a spike in sales for Saturday's game right now.

As it is, I'm personally pretty sceptical that anything much is really going to change, especially as the chairman is on the way out anyway, so any long-term promises are really going to be pretty meaningless.

 

You make some great points but I think you alluded to it - Steve Brown's continued detachment from running the club. It's clear he's had enough and will be glad when we get someone in to take over.

[blueheaven]

15 hours ago, Cagey said:

Davidson interview on PLZ. Had a 2 hour meeting with Chairman on on Monday about on and off field matters and he was pretty flat. Hopefully more about the on field matters.

Panel couldn't believe Saints were giving 3 stands to Rangers turning it into mini Ibrox.

Guessing the panel didn't include Mark Guidi on this occasion, then? 

[SaintJet]

17 minutes ago, Havana Saint said:

What this whole sorry episode has shown in absolute crystal clarity, is that Brown has already left the Chair role mentally, whilst physically still being in position. This does not serve St Johnstone FC well at all.

I agree.

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't show on Saturday, he's bound to know the strength of feeling and if we go behind early it's obvious where the fans who have went along will vent their frustration.

[Jamie_Beatson]

The more I've thought about this as a marketing exercise the more irritating it gets for me. I spoke to Matt Gallagher at the PA the other day and kind of mentioned it to him, but this was really an opportunity to try something different and put the current disastrous league form to the side for one weekend and try to rally the fans.

My profession til a few years ago was in media and PR - it really wouldn't have taken a great deal of imagination to do something along the lines of:

- Emphasise the fact that Saints have won more trophies than Rangers over the past decade. Some tongue in cheek stuff (but absolutely factual) about the fact that Rangers are trying to chase our record down.

- Market it as "We Want More" - we've won three cups in the last nine years, and we want another. Again - a bit tongue in cheek - but really hit the fact that we've done it before and we want to do it again, this time in person.

- Again, hit the fact that we missed out last time because it was all behind closed doors. "Don't miss it this time" or something along those lines.

- Pitch it as a one-off game - forget the league form, forget everything else, this matters more for one weekend.

- Just flood social media with constant videos of James Brown/Nicky Clark's goals earlier this season against Rangers along with Zander's header on to Chris Kane at Ibrox during the 2021 cup run, along with the shoot out. And obviously the cup final goals/trophy lifts. Get the excitement going - we've done it before, we'll do it again.

- Combine all of the above - if at all possible - with cutting Rangers back to <3000 tickets in the North/Main stands and ticket prices at £20 adults, £15 students/OAPS, £10 12-18 and £5 for U-12s. I'd like to think that having half the number of Rangers fans would see a drop in the costs in terms of policing etc, but that's really not something that's public knowledge.

We might not sell out, but we'd surely at least get a home crowd that outnumbers the Rangers support on the day. 4000 home fans and 2800 away at least? Back ourselves, give ourselves a chance, try *something* instead of... this...

[sixties saintee]

11 hours ago, HOODLUM65 said:

Ain't going.

Prefer to "donate" my admission money to my local hostelry and watch the game in warmth and comfort.

Hic.

Get along go hame and watch Kinnoul in the afternoon.

[sixties saintee]

1 hour ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

The more I've thought about this as a marketing exercise the more irritating it gets for me. I spoke to Matt Gallagher at the PA the other day and kind of mentioned it to him, but this was really an opportunity to try something different and put the current disastrous league form to the side for one weekend and try to rally the fans.

My profession til a few years ago was in media and PR - it really wouldn't have taken a great deal of imagination to do something along the lines of:

- Emphasise the fact that Saints have won more trophies than Rangers over the past decade. Some tongue in cheek stuff (but absolutely factual) about the fact that Rangers are trying to chase our record down.

- Market it as "We Want More" - we've won three cups in the last nine years, and we want another. Again - a bit tongue in cheek - but really hit the fact that we've done it before and we want to do it again, this time in person.

- Again, hit the fact that we missed out last time because it was all behind closed doors. "Don't miss it this time" or something along those lines.

- Pitch it as a one-off game - forget the league form, forget everything else, this matters more for one weekend.

- Just flood social media with constant videos of James Brown/Nicky Clark's goals earlier this season against Rangers along with Zander's header on to Chris Kane at Ibrox during the 2021 cup run, along with the shoot out. And obviously the cup final goals/trophy lifts. Get the excitement going - we've done it before, we'll do it again.

- Combine all of the above - if at all possible - with cutting Rangers back to <3000 tickets in the North/Main stands and ticket prices at £20 adults, £15 students/OAPS, £10 12-18 and £5 for U-12s. I'd like to think that having half the number of Rangers fans would see a drop in the costs in terms of policing etc, but that's really not something that's public knowledge.

We might not sell out, but we'd surely at least get a home crowd that outnumbers the Rangers support on the day. 4000 home fans and 2800 away at least? Back ourselves, give ourselves a chance, try *something* instead of... this...

Stop coming on here speaking a bit o common sense.

[pezza70]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

I don't think that's the case about Rangers getting tickets in the Main Stands. The whole stand is still on sale to Saints fans if you go to the ticketing website. If they were to put Rangers fans in there they'd need to move Saints fans who have bought tickets. I don't think even Saints would be tone-deaf enough to do that. And I don't think they'd be able to organise that at this late stage even if they wanted to.

Yesterday I had a rough count of tickets sold just before the announcement was made, and it was at around 310. Just counted again and it seems to be at around 370. Not sure if that's the impact of the announcement or if those people would have bought tickets late anyway. I'll be pretty surprised if it goes over 500.

 

 

 

The sad part is whether it’s 370 or 1000 tickets sold, the club right now is on the nose with the very people who love this club, this is going to take a very long time to mend the relationship between fans and the club, as a supporter I hope it does, but as a realist I also know that the trust between the majority of fans and the board is now gone.

[slf]

The slo has been one of the good things to come out of the club in the last few years.

 

has she been silenced or sacked

the silence is deafening 

[Sergei]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Just say it properly, right at the start of the announcement: We've made some mistakes. We're sorry. We promise we'll do better. It's really not that hard to just apologise properly, and it would regain both him and the club a bit of credit among the fans.

Explain to the support why these decisions were taken, and explain why that decision was followed by nearly 20 days of silence.

Accept that communication needs to improve - and, to that end, announce a meet-the-board evening to allow fans the opportunity to ask questions face to face. Questions about ticket arrangements, about the sale of the club, about anything we want. Other clubs do this.

The problem is this could have been posted numerous times over the years. Nothing changes. It never will unless the new owners have a totally different attitude.

23 minutes ago, pezza70 said:

The sad part is whether it’s 370 or 1000 tickets sold, the club right now is on the nose with the very people who love this club, this is going to take a very long time to mend the relationship between fans and the club, as a supporter I hope it does, but as a realist I also know that the trust between the majority of fans and the board is now gone.

Which is what happened in the past when they pulled stunts like this. They never learn. They let the furore die down then repeat or simply ignore the issue. That's why I'd find any show of supposed contrition and promises for the future just meaningless words. 

[Sergei]

17 minutes ago, slf said:

The slo has been one of the good things to come out of the club in the last few years.

 

has she been silenced or sacked

the silence is deafening 

Undoubtedly silenced.

[Gas Monkey]

Bottom line in all of this is the fact that Steve Brown stopped caring about Saints some time ago and made it clear he was no longer leading or taking interest in the club. This has filtered through to all areas of the club. We need new owners and we need them ASAP to hopefully move us forward and with more positivity

[SaintJet]

49 minutes ago, slf said:

The slo has been one of the good things to come out of the club in the last few years.

 

has she been silenced or sacked

the silence is deafening 

I can assure you that SLO Bev is still very much part of the club.

At the onset of this debacle I emailed her and received a reply. Whilst she retained her proffesional position it was made clear to me that the club are embarressed by the mistakes they have made and there will not be a repeat. 

[blueheaven]

1 hour ago, Sergei said:

Which is what happened in the past when they pulled stunts like this. They never learn. They let the furore die down then repeat or simply ignore the issue. That's why I'd find any show of supposed contrition and promises for the future just meaningless words. 

This is sadly true. I do sometimes wonder what Saints' average attendances might be like if we hadn't made these kind of gaffes over the years and the club had generally had a more positive approach to PR and marketing. It's been the club's main weak point for as long as I've supported Saints (I can even remember the club being the last one in the Premier League, and possibly the country, to get its own official website, because they've just never cared about stuff like that).

Obviously a moot point now that the club is up for sale, but with £5 million in the bank, what benefits might we have seen if just a small amount of that had been ring-fenced to bring in someone with a successful sports marketing background for a year or two, give them a bit of a budget, and see what changes they could implement.

I really don't see this side of things improving once Geoff is back at the helm, either.

[pezza70]

Totten may not of been the greatest manager tactically but he would always try and sell the club, if someone like that could do it, imagine someone whose job it is to sell the club actually did that.

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

4 hours ago, SaintJet said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't show on Saturday, he's bound to know the strength of feeling and if we go behind early it's obvious where the fans who have went along will vent their frustration.

It's the happy clapping Saintees like yourself* that are going, there won't be any frustration to vent.

 

*before you say it, we all know you aren't going.

[SaintJet]

18 minutes ago, andy rhodes fancy watch said:

It's the happy clapping Saintees like yourself* that are going, there won't be any frustration to vent.

 

*before you say it, we all know you aren't going.

I'm going because I support my team; they don't deserve to be abandoned because of something they can't control.

In all the time I've been on this forum I've never heard you post one positive thing about Saints.  This is the man that berated Chris Kane at every turn and then I realised that he'd parked his porche over your drive.

You really need to move on or perhaps you'd be better in one of the other three stands where these fans believe they are entitled!

Edited January 19, 2023 by SaintJet

[weesainty]

5 hours ago, SaintJet said:

I'm going because I support my team; they don't deserve to be abandoned because of something they can't control.

In all the time I've been on this forum I've never heard you post one positive thing about Saints.  This is the man that berated Chris Kane at every turn and then I realised that he'd parked his porche over your drive.

You really need to move on or perhaps you'd be better in one of the other three stands where these fans believe they are entitled!

Why can’t they control it was it not saints that agreed all of this

[garydavidson]

10 hours ago, Wendy Saints said:

 I had decided not to go when the fixture was first released! I hate the toxicity of the opposition, I turn up for season ticket games but hate every second!

Then the furore of giving the stands away! Then the boycott word was thrown in! Dilemma ..I felt I’d made a decision based on being uncomfortable, now my absence was being viewed as a boycott? Hmmm in all my years of following Saints I’ve never felt the need to protest! Upshot is I’ve bought a ticket!

At the end of the day it’s not the players fault the board are making dodgy decisions so I’ve enlisted for 90 plus minutes of sheer agony! 
Mon the Saints 

So the main reason you are going is to spite the fans making a stand? 

[Cagey]

11 hours ago, Wendy Saints said:

 I had decided not to go when the fixture was first released! I hate the toxicity of the opposition, I turn up for season ticket games but hate every second!

Then the furore of giving the stands away! Then the boycott word was thrown in! Dilemma ..I felt I’d made a decision based on being uncomfortable, now my absence was being viewed as a boycott? Hmmm in all my years of following Saints I’ve never felt the need to protest! Upshot is I’ve bought a ticket!

At the end of the day it’s not the players fault the board are making dodgy decisions so I’ve enlisted for 90 plus minutes of sheer agony! 
Mon the Saints 

Boycott is the only tool we have in the box. It has already caught the attention of the media who got a response from the chairman.

If we go back on it now we will be ridiculed by opposition fans and media.

It's bloody hard to stay away.

[RandomGuy]

Rangers "media partners" claim we'd allowed Rangers fans to have a display in the East Stand to greet the players as they came out.

Only reason it was cancelled was because they worried about even more of a Saints backlash.

Yet still people will defend the club.

Its a cup game, against opponents we can get past, and theyre tried their best to make our opponents feel at home.

[MySpazz]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:45 AM, Aitchy said:

Absolutely nonsense.

Of course our first team is where money can be made. Even though we did not get enough money for McCann, do you not think that money has significantly contributed towards the financial wellbeing of the club? What about the fees over the past ten years for May, O’Halloran and Kerr?

Do you not think that alienating over 2000 of our core customers is a bizarre business decision? The strength of feeling about this situation amongst a high proportion of our support is such that people may decide they no longer want to purchase merchandise or season tickets moving forward. 

It’s ok now and again to criticise the club. Do you believe the have handled this situation well in terms of communication? Do you not wish your club showed some more ambition? 
 

 

More ambition than what? The boxing clever successes we've had?

"Of course our first team is where money can be made." <-- that is nonsense in the top leagues. Football, on a Saturday, does not support itself to the level ambition that you might want.