St Mirren vs St Johnstone - 28.10.23

[Havana Saint]

42 minutes ago, Cagey said:

3 home games in 10 days. 9 points required.

We could (and probably will) get beat about 3 nil midweek and Macca will still be in charge. Shambles top to bottom.

Writing on the wall after the embarrassment of Stirling Albion.

[mike_gain]

9 minutes ago, HALLS ANGEL said:

MacLean doesn’t seem to have any personnel skills and doesn’t seem popular with players. You have to have a manager that attracts players to the club and that players want to play for. 

Have we got that man?

Judging by his comments his coaching skills are not up to it.

Does make me wonder who was really behind the crazy number of players we've had make a small number of appearances only to be frozen out and binned for no real reason.

[Cagey]

43 minutes ago, Cagey said:

There are already 3 that he didn't want to play for us again. Be lucky if he can put a team on the field next week if he stands by his comment.

Brown and Smith subbed on 50 mins , is it them.

[St. Paddy]

10 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Brown and Smith subbed on 50 mins , is it them.

Brown, obviously well off it today.  I found  myself watching Smith, and he is a real ghost of a player, offered nothing, or very very little of anything.

I could go thru them all, bur other than a cameo from DJ and Kane, really difficult to say anything positive about anyone.

[Gekko]

53 minutes ago, PSJ.84 said:

I take back what I said about James Brown yesterday. It’s not that he’s not good enough going forward, it’s that he’s not good enough. He’s not alone in that though. 
 

Not sure where I stand in terms of MacLean - will probably wait until the morning - but it’s obviously not good enough.
 

An embarrassing day in what has been an embarrassment of a season. You obviously can’t just go around smashing players but to lose 4-0 and not pick up a single booking  tells a story. Bunch of shitebags - both physically and mentally. 

I'll take my medicine re: Brown. I tried to be positive, but that was shocking. 

He wasn't the only one. 

Back to the league cup form and by this time of the season, there's no excuse. 

MacLean is surely running out of time. 

To be fair to him, he was never ready for this job in the first place. 

He even said that himself in an interview. But he added that he had to take a chance like this when given to him. 

It's unbelievable he was given three years. 

A lazy appointment in the first place by a chairman who'd chucked it years ago, but THREE YEARS! 

He's not a superstar manager we're trying to lure to the club with a long contract, he's a brand-new manager who didn't have any other options. 

Surely a season at most to prove himself at most was the thing to do? 

It’s also getting very worrying the way he’s conducting himself in interviews. He doesn’t sound like somebody who knows what he’s doing and is in control of the situation. 

I did think at the time that we needed a complete clear out to rid ourselves of the Davidson era and try to stop the downward spiral we've seemed to be on in the last few years. 

We're now detached at the bottom of the league and if Kilmarnock goes as badly as this, I'd say we need to cut our losses. 

The cost of being relegated far outweighs the money it would take to pay up his contract. 

If we went down, I very much doubt we'd find it as easy as United are to top the league at the moment. 

Look at the teams down there. Dunfermline, Partick, Raith, ICT, Airdrie etc. 

All clubs who can realistically fancy a shot at the top league. 

For me, our topflight status has to be preserved at all costs. 

No matter how we do it, and no matter who leads us. 

As for who the replacement should be, to be honest, I'm back to what I felt like under Davidson in that anybody will do a better job than the current guy. 

I think we now need experience rather than this "give a young manager a go" attitude that we've had over recent years. 

Look how Robinson has transformed St. Mirren. 

However, when you look at who’s realistically available, it’s slim pickings. 

Here’s a few names who are out of work. 

Now, before you start, I’m not suggesting any of these, and some of them don’t come under the experienced tag, I’m only putting them out there because they’re out of work... 

 

Graham Alexander 

Scott Brown 

Billy Dodds 

Robbie Neilson 

Neil Lennon (although I think he’s getting the R.O.I. job) 

Michael Beale 

Yogi 😜

Gary Rowett 😜😜

Joey Barton 😜😜😜

 

And if you want to go a bit Championship Manager style crazy... 

 

Mark Hughes 

Sam Allardyce 

John Eustace 

Neil Warnock 

Frank Lampard 

 

Do any others come to mind?

Edited October 28, 2023 by Gekko

[Ritspeed]

This is bringing to my mind, more and more, John Connolly's time as manager.  He would rant and rave after a game but didn't appear to have the ability to motivate and coach his squad.   I had my doubts about McLean as I wasn't seeing evidence of any skill when he was a strikers coach.  Bit my tongue as I wasn't privy to seeing his work.  I was encouraged by the summer signings but can't help but feel the coaches are not integrating them, nor getting the best out of them.  I was optimistic the recent break would provide encouragement but am now very pessimistic. 

[Kinnoull Kicker]

Don’t post very often……but needs must .

Pains me to say it but McLean and coaching staff need removed now. He was dealt a bad hand but was presumably integral to the squad overhaul despite the fact he had no managerial experience. McLean talk a good game but has simply failed to deliver -whether its recruitment or coaching he has failed. We are almost a third of the way through the season - not even looking like we can win and of course the League Cup was a disaster. Pointless him criticising and threatening players ( that in itself show an serious lack of man management skills given that he cannot change personnel until we are half way through the season), everything points to either they don’t want to play for him, tactics and team selection are wrong or the squad is simply not good enough. My guess is it’s a combination of all of this. At the end of the day the manger and coaches are responsible and to give any hope of avoiding relegation, changes need to happen NOW.

What we need is for Geoff Brown preferably or whoever controls the Club to make a clear communication on how the Club plans to resolve the current situation and the timeline for action. As a season ticket holder ( along with my family) it is simply unacceptable that underperformance on so many fronts has persisted for so long.
 

If WAPers agree or otherwise please respond as appropriate. I suppose this is the start of a campaign to give our Club at least a chance to get back to where it can be.

[Ritspeed]

15 minutes ago, Gekko said:

I'll take my medicine re: Brown. I tried to be positive, but that was shocking. 

He wasn't the only one. 

Back to the league cup form and by this time of the season, there's no excuse. 

MacLean is surely running out of time. 

To be fair to him, he was never ready for this job in the first place. 

He even said that himself in an interview. But he added that he had to take a chance like this when given to him. 

It's unbelievable he was given three years. 

A lazy appointment in the first place by a chairman who'd chucked it years ago, but THREE YEARS! 

He's not a superstar manager we're trying to lure to the club with a long contract, he's a brand-new manager who didn't have any other options. 

Surely a season at most to prove himself at most was the thing to do? 

It’s also getting very worrying the way he’s conducting himself in interviews. He doesn’t sound like somebody who knows what he’s doing and is in control of the situation. 

I did think at the time that we needed a complete clear out to rid ourselves of the Davidson era and try to stop the downward spiral we've seemed to be on in the last few years. 

We're now detached at the bottom of the league and if Kilmarnock goes as badly as this, I'd say we need to cut our losses. 

The cost of being relegated far outweighs the money it would take to pay up his contract. 

If we went down, I very much doubt we'd find it as easy as United are to top the league at the moment. 

Look at the teams down there. Dunfermline, Partick, Raith, ICT, Airdrie etc. 

All clubs who can realistically fancy a shot at the top league. 

For me, our topflight status has to be preserved at all costs. 

No matter how we do it, and no matter who leads us. 

As for who the replacement should be, to be honest, I'm back to what I felt like under Davidson in that anybody will do a better job than the current guy. 

I think we now need experience rather than this "give a young manager a go" attitude that we've had over recent years. 

Look how Robinson has transformed St. Mirren. 

However, when you look at who’s realistically available, it’s slim pickings. 

Here’s a few names who are out of work. 

Now, before you start, I’m not suggesting any of these, and some of them don’t come under the experienced tag, I’m only putting them out there because they’re out of work... 

 

Graham Alexander 

Scott Brown 

Billy Dodds 

Robbie Neilson 

Neil Lennon (although I think he’s getting the R.O.I. job) 

Michael Beale 

Yogi 😜

Gary Rowett 😜😜

Joey Barton 😜😜😜

 

And if you want to go a bit Championship Manager style crazy... 

 

Mark Hughes 

Sam Allardyce 

John Eustace 

Neil Warnock 

Frank Lampard 

 

Do any others come to mind?

Aaargh! apart from maybe John Eustace.  It would be worthwhile paying for a top manager/coaching staff who could get the best out of 70% ability players. 

[crieffsaintandy]

Bad appointments cheap and lazy from a board that are hiding behind Steve left, flax, Davidson etc who all created this mess, but we are where we are, and they just seem lost yeah Stan good guy and all that but this is getting beyond a joke, we all sat and watched this shit show for last two years and any man and his dog could see where we were heading except the clowns that run us and they just didn’t react, Macca and crew will still be here at Christmas coming out with same shit excuses and still nothing from they shitebags on the board. Sort this mess out now use some is the rainy day funds before it is too late and we spiral down and become another Falkirk or Pars and the rainy day fund and potential investors disappear into the sunrise! And still wait for the we were shite in the eighties mob, aye we were but we didn’t have £millions in the bank to resolve it.

The last two years with that fraud Davidson and out of their depth Macca, Craig Cleland are going to kill this club unless they get rid now, but it seems they don’t care a rudderless ship ran by a boys club that couldn’t manage an amateur set up.

[Shaggy Jenkins]

Yes we have made a loss this year. However there is still a fair whack there. So use it and then sell up.

From what I have heard and I am in no way ITK but any potential new owners are watching this season very closely . You would expect the best for all parties that means premiership football. 

However I just feel that the plan is to go down everything has been geared towards it, cut price manager and bargain basement squad. So maybe any potential new owner wants a sum in the bank preserved. Would vastly reduce the asking price however, good for them bad for Geoff. I dunno something just feels off about this. I find it incredible that those in charge could not see the inevitability of this manager and this budget

[Aitchy]

The 3 year deal looks more and more mental as every week goes on. Macca is a good guy, a club legend and I have liked a lot of what he has said, but the more time has gone on it is evident that he is not the man for the job. I hope he goes on to have a good career at a lower level.

Will the board take action? I’m more hopeful now that Geoff and Stan are back running things.

Neilson or Lennon would be my choices for next manager. Both know the Scottish game inside out, have proven track records and will raise standards. Neither are going to get a job at some of the so called bigger teams in Scotland anytime soon and only need to look at our recent history to see that success is possible.

[HALLS ANGEL]

We don’t have a clue how to create a chance. Never mind score a goal or defend. This is the least optimist I have ever been in decades of following Saints. That includes 75/ 76 11 points, at least we had some decent players that  other clubs wanted.

Jeanfield have a committee that’s committed we have people running the club that don’t seem to care.

Steve Brown should never appoint a manager three weeks before he departed and been man enough to wait until the club was sold before resining, Instead he left the selling to his eighty year old father. This is the mess you get in with one person owning the club and having directors that don’t seem to care.

When Geoff Brown took over the club he was a young man with a board of directors who were interested in driving the club forward. Saints were in a mess at that time but at least the fans knew Alex Lamond cared and did what was best for Saints and stepped aside.

It is a sad day when the fans don’t look forward to the next game and wish the season was over. Let’s face it we wouldn’t beat Elgin 6 - 0, that’s how bad it is. 

Does anyone think we can win on Wednesday?

[dasovic]

I think that you could replace almost anyone in that team (except Mitov!) With Ryan McGowan and it would be an improvement. What is going on there??

[Gekko]

27 minutes ago, Aitchy said:

The 3 year deal looks more and more mental as every week goes on. Macca is a good guy, a club legend and I have liked a lot of what he has said, but the more time has gone on it is evident that he is not the man for the job. I hope he goes on to have a good career at a lower level.

Will the board take action? I’m more hopeful now that Geoff and Stan are back running things.

Neilson or Lennon would be my choices for next manager. Both know the Scottish game inside out, have proven track records and will raise standards. Neither are going to get a job at some of the so called bigger teams in Scotland anytime soon and only need to look at our recent history to see that success is possible.

I would be fine with Lennon for the reasons you mentioned, but apparently, he’s next in line for the Republic of Ireland job. 

Neilson is the best of an average bunch I suppose. 

Although I will throw in a leftfield option here. 

I mentioned him in a post a few days back, Leam Richardson, the old Wigan boss. 

He managed the team when they were in administration and kept them up, an amazing achievement, when all the decent players were sold and all he had as a squad was out of work players and kids. 

So, he has the experience of being in a relegation battle with the odds stacked against him. 

The next year after the new owners had taken over, he guided them to promotion as champions, had them playing some great stuff and won the league one manager of the year award. 

He obviously then, also knows how to put a winning team together. 

Typical of football, they named a stand after him for his success and loyalty when the chips were down, then punted him a few months later because he’d gone six games without a win...only six. 

I’ve seen him doing a bit of punditry and he’s always saying how he misses it and would like to return to management. 

I don’t know if he’d fancy up here, but he doesn’t seem to have anything else going on at the moment. 

As it stands, we’re still an attractive option as a top tier side. 

Hopefully that might hold some pulling power.

[mike_gain]

2 minutes ago, dasovic said:

I think that you could replace almost anyone in that team (except Mitov!) With Ryan McGowan and it would be an improvement. What is going on there??

This has been a thing for a few seasons. Players inexplicably frozen out.

I agree McGowan would improve the midfield or the defence. 

[St. Paddy]

20 minutes ago, mike_gain said:

This has been a thing for a few seasons. Players inexplicably frozen out.

I agree McGowan would improve the midfield or the defence. 

Did he have the audacity to do and up and say something that someone didn't like to hear?

Doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet, but I'm sure someone can put me right?

[sixties saintee]

Said it before ,say it again , get Robbie Neilson in, end off.

[slf]

Am getting blotto

[Cagey]

54 to 46 possession.

14 shots to 9.

3 on target to St Mirrens 5 with 4 scored. That is the main problem teams score with their chances we don't.

5 fouls to their 9

0 bookings to their 2.

5 fouls and no bookings for a team fighting for their life !.

Both teams haven't had a game for 3 weeks . Looked like it from Saints but not St Mirren.

It's been raining in the East for 3 weeks now and any time I have seen us training it was with big coats and looking miserable , especially the manager.

Defence was a shambles and as usual if we lose the first goal the heads go down.

[Cagey]

Just noticed Carey wasn't even on the bench.

Looks as every week goes by, we are missing a player like Spoony. I am sure he would have taken a 6 month contact at least.

[Cagey]

At the third goal why were Gordon and Considine half way up the right wing  and how embarrassing was it watching them slowly trying to get back.

Was there a SHAPE today , everyone looked all over the place.

[Havana Saint]

Have a moment to look through our playing squad. Macca has played over 30 players this season.   So many players not even Championship material.

None of them could score against Stirling, Ross County, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Stenhousemuir, Celtic, Hearts, Sevco and Hibs. 

It is approaching November and we are an absolute mess. 

If Macca is still in place on Monday, it shows what utter disregard and negligence there has been from the club since the cup double. Arguably the biggest club mess in Scotland in decades.  

Atrocious.

[Lifelong Saintee]

5 hours ago, HALLS ANGEL said:

We don’t have a clue how to create a chance. Never mind score a goal or defend. This is the least optimist I have ever been in decades of following Saints. That includes 75/ 76 11 points, at least we had some decent players that  other clubs wanted.

Jeanfield have a committee that’s committed we have people running the club that don’t seem to care.

Steve Brown should never appoint a manager three weeks before he departed and been man enough to wait until the club was sold before resining, Instead he left the selling to his eighty year old father. This is the mess you get in with one person owning the club and having directors that don’t seem to care.

When Geoff Brown took over the club he was a young man with a board of directors who were interested in driving the club forward. Saints were in a mess at that time but at least the fans knew Alex Lamond cared and did what was best for Saints and stepped aside.

It is a sad day when the fans don’t look forward to the next game and wish the season was over. Let’s face it we wouldn’t beat Elgin 6 - 0, that’s how bad it is. 

Does anyone think we can win on Wednesday?

Well said on that new board at that time.  Also your comment on Alex Lamond. 

I think the team at that time, in that first game at Stirling, and the following week at home to Cowdenbeath wasn’t much worse than the current lot! 😊

[PSJ.84]

6 hours ago, Havana Saint said:

 

If Macca is still in place on Monday, it shows what utter disregard and negligence there has been from the club since the cup double. Arguably the biggest club mess in Scotland in decades.  

Atrocious.

With the next international break being a fortnight away, and there being three home games between now and then, I think he’ll still be in charge come Monday. It’s probably even wishful thinking on my part to suggest he’s being given these three games as a last chance.  

[Setting Son]

Callum out