ex-montrosesaintee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I agree with what you say. What I find hard to accept is that if Steve makes the 'wrong' decision, based on his best judgement, then not going to games from then forward is punishing the club, not Steve Brown, not Rangers, Not Sir David Murray etc. To my mind the decision is easy. And, I do not have a season ticket, but take my lad to as many games as I can, probably 10-12 a season. If Dundee were in the SPL I would go to every game between us. I don't usually bother with OF games because I don't like my son being exposed to their disgusting behaviour and sectarian songs. I am pretty sure I am not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Grieve Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Narrowest vote for years...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Goran Stanic Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 But if the club base their decision on money, and not fans, then they deserve to be punished by the fans. What do we owe St Johnstone? Absolutely nothing. Yet we give them our money, we follow them across the country and our return is either enjoyment at winning, sadness at losing, or if we are talking the last 6 or 7 games we feel angry that we wasted our money on players who didn't seem to be performing to the best of their abilities. We are loyal supporters though, we come back whether we win lose or draw. Are the board loyal to us? As fans we have donated money to the youth system, tried to come up with inventive ways to address the low attendances and carried the name of St Johnstone across the country and upheld its good reputation. The board owes the fans integrity. The board need to act in the best interests of the club's fans. If they act out of self interest and protection of wealth then, in my opinion, the club does deserve to punished. Punished for showing a complete lack of interest in it's largest asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 But if the club base their decision on money, and not fans, then they deserve to be punished by the fans. What do we owe St Johnstone? Absolutely nothing. Yet we give them our money, we follow them across the country and our return is either enjoyment at winning, sadness at losing, or if we are talking the last 6 or 7 games we feel angry that we wasted our money on players who didn't seem to be performing to the best of their abilities. We are loyal supporters though, we come back whether we win lose or draw. Are the board loyal to us? As fans we have donated money to the youth system, tried to come up with inventive ways to address the low attendances and carried the name of St Johnstone across the country and upheld its good reputation. The board owes the fans integrity. The board need to act in the best interests of the club's fans. If they act out of self interest and protection of wealth then, in my opinion, the club does deserve to punished. Punished for showing a complete lack of interest in it's largest asset. Your argument is compelling. My only comeback is that the players are who we pay to see give their all, ultimately for the fans. Is it their fault? Do they deserve to play in front of empty stands because of one Man's decision? I don't pay for me and my lad to watch board meetings, I pay to watch the players play football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingaporeSaint Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Should get posters up in the town, asking people not to purchase season tickets till the NEWCO issue is resolved. That would help focus the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calypso Kid Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Your argument is compelling. My only comeback is that the players are who we pay to see give their all, ultimately for the fans. Is it their fault? Do they deserve to play in front of empty stands because of one Man's decision? I don't pay for me and my lad to watch board meetings, I pay to watch the players play football. Understood, but do you pay the players to play in a rigged competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Goran Stanic Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Your argument is compelling. My only comeback is that the players are who we pay to see give their all, ultimately for the fans. Is it their fault? Do they deserve to play in front of empty stands because of one Man's decision? I don't pay for me and my lad to watch board meetings, I pay to watch the players play football. And it's a good comeback! I too enjoy watching football.I enjoy watching saints. I wouldn't get the same level of enjoyment out of watching other teams. I would find it so difficult to stop going to games. I agree that it would be harsh on the players as they obviously have no impact on any board decisions. They don't deserve to play in front of empty stands, but they have no right to play in front of full stands either. I'm sure they could move on to another club and still be happy that they are earning their living as professional footballers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstar101 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Your argument is compelling. My only comeback is that the players are who we pay to see give their all, ultimately for the fans. Is it their fault? Do they deserve to play in front of empty stands because of one Man's decision? I don't pay for me and my lad to watch board meetings, I pay to watch the players play football. Understood, but do you pay the players to play in a rigged competition? At the outset, I voted to say that I would return to watch Saints, regardless of the outcome of the Rangers saga. However, I am starting to wonder just how jaded an experience it would be if a newco Rangers were allowed back in to the SPL. I am not saying that I am as principled as those who wont go back if that happens, but I can see myself drifting away from the game, ultimately leading to the same outcome...two less fans as my son and I eventually stop going altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryangordon86 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'm seriously falling out of love with the game as a whole. I'm not sure how much of it is down to the Rangers Saga but once upon a time I could sit and watch games between any 2 teams even if I had no interest in the clubs involved. I've not yet managed to watch a full 90 mins at the Euro's yet, generally I've switched off by half time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'm seriously falling out of love with the game as a whole. I'm not sure how much of it is down to the Rangers Saga but once upon a time I could sit and watch games between any 2 teams even if I had no interest in the clubs involved. I've not yet managed to watch a full 90 mins at the Euro's yet, generally I've switched off by half time Funny, I was just thinking the opposite. I've watched almost all of the Euros. Maybe it's the interest of my son in the game now, but the Euros have been really competitive to date. Even the two host nations have been excellent value. Without Rangers the SPL would become more competitive, more watchable, and I genuinely think with Dundee in the league average attendances would creep up for Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDougie Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Brown will vote as his dad tells him to.......that will be to allow a newco into the SPL. I dont believe that he has the b4lls to vote them out! That depends though, they have recently recognised that not listening loses thousands of fans. They are currently listening intently to what the fans have been saying due to a massive drop in attendance over the past 10 or so years. Can they really afford to not listen this time and lose all of what hard core fan base is left? I was also thinking about the attendance revenue lost with no Rangers at McDiarmid twice a season. In the case where Rangers are bumped to the 3rd division then Dundee would take their place in the SPL. Now I'm not saying Dundee would bring as many fans as Rangers, but they would easily take around 3000 to Perth after all these years. On top of that there would be an increase on Saints fans attending these games which would surely balance out the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Saint Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'm seriously falling out of love with the game as a whole. I'm not sure how much of it is down to the Rangers Saga but once upon a time I could sit and watch games between any 2 teams even if I had no interest in the clubs involved. I've not yet managed to watch a full 90 mins at the Euro's yet, generally I've switched off by half time I'm the very same, lucky if i've watched more than 30 minutes of any game and probably missed about 6 games completely. I put it down to football overkill on the telly, too many games. It's all getting a bit boring. I found last week I was switching between the tennis and the cricket rather than watch the euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Grieve Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 That depends though, they have recently recognised that not listening loses thousands of fans. They are currently listening intently to what the fans have been saying due to a massive drop in attendance over the past 10 or so years. Can they really afford to not listen this time and lose all of what hard core fan base is left? I was also thinking about the attendance revenue lost with no Rangers at McDiarmid twice a season. In the case where Rangers are bumped to the 3rd division then Dundee would take their place in the SPL. Now I'm not saying Dundee would bring as many fans as Rangers, but they would easily take around 3000 to Perth after all these years. On top of that there would be an increase on Saints fans attending these games which would surely balance out the books. A Dundee game would get 6-7 thousand..... How many at the last(ever) Rangers game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) A Dundee game would get 6-7 thousand..... How many at the last(ever) Rangers game? About that! 6459! Edited June 14, 2012 by montrosesaintee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Johnston Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 It's not an impossible decision though. Financially saints are very secure. Losing income from Rangers will not kill St Johnstone. In fact if they are replaced by Dundee, in terms of attendance money, Dundee will almost cancel out the lack of ****. Sky will still sponsor the SPL in some way, there will still be SPL games broadcast on tele thus there will still be a sponsorship deal with income for the clubs. This will be split more evenly than the current set up. We have also just lost our (probable) 3/4 highest earners from the wage bill. It is a moral decision. When money is involved sadly people lose sight of right and wrong. Vote YES and Steve Brown has no morals, no integrity and no interest in what the fans want. Scottish football becomes a joke. Vote NO and he stands tall, tells the rest of Scottish football that his club do not bend over for a club which has cheated countless teams out of opportunities to appear in cup finals, play european football etc, cheated the country our of millions of pounds of tax, and the rest. We show the country that we do not accept cheating in our game. Rangers have shown absolutely no remorse for their actions. Not one person associated with the club in any way has came out in public, held their hands up and said these 3 words. "We are sorry". Instead they appeal every decision made, breaking more rules in the process and pump the tabloids full of propaganda proclaiming how rangers are being wrongly persecuted. If they showed an ounce of humility then perhaps the fans of other teams across the country would be able to show sympathy to rangers. However they haven't. In short, it's not an impossible position that Steve Brown is in. It should be an easy decision. No to Newco. Post of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersaintee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I don't think the gate money even comes into it. If you look at our average gates last season, it was only 4170. Rangers games averaged 6498, so across our 3 home games we only got an extra 6985 fans through the gate. With no Rangers in the league, I presume all teams would get 2 home games vs Celtic, meaning that a third of that increase is only down to playing Rangers instead of Celtic, not as well as. We lost out on one home game last season because of our top six finish, and that cost us an additional gate, which is effectively what we lose if Rangers go. By the time you factor in 5k+ crowds against Dundee, gate money doesn't even come into the argument. Factor in loss in season tickets sales, and the gate drops costs the club. Bottom line is - does the TV money coming in from Rangers in the SPL outweigh the ill-feeling and drop in gate money, both short and long term. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Rave Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I don't think the gate money even comes into it. If you look at our average gates last season, it was only 4170. Rangers games averaged 6498, so across our 3 home games we only got an extra 6985 fans through the gate. With no Rangers in the league, I presume all teams would get 2 home games vs Celtic, meaning that a third of that increase is only down to playing Rangers instead of Celtic, not as well as. We lost out on one home game last season because of our top six finish, and that cost us an additional gate, which is effectively what we lose if Rangers go. By the time you factor in 5k+ crowds against Dundee, gate money doesn't even come into the argument. Factor in loss in season tickets sales, and the gate drops costs the club. Bottom line is - does the TV money coming in from Rangers in the SPL outweigh the ill-feeling and drop in gate money, both short and long term. No. Exactly, the money will be lost for 3 years. The fans will be lost forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invernessaint Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I agree with what you say. What I find hard to accept is that if Steve makes the 'wrong' decision, based on his best judgement, then not going to games from then forward is punishing the club, not Steve Brown, not Rangers, Not Sir David Murray etc. To my mind the decision is easy. And, I do not have a season ticket, but take my lad to as many games as I can, probably 10-12 a season. If Dundee were in the SPL I would go to every game between us. I don't usually bother with OF games because I don't like my son being exposed to their disgusting behaviour and sectarian songs. I am pretty sure I am not alone. Agree completely. My son and I pick and choose the games we watch each season cos of the distances and the expense of travelling. We NEVER choose to attend any of the games involving the Old Firm preferring games against the likes of the Arabs, Dons, Jambos etc. If Dundee were back in the league we would attend all the games home and away against them. Its time to stand firm against the Rangers hype and hysteria and do whats right for the Scottish game. The Rangers fans I know are still acting all smug and still fail to appreciate the enormity of what their club has done. Get them out, we wont miss them at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejksjfc Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I voted no. Unfortunately the people who's vote count, I think, will vote yes. Hope I am proved wrong on that point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOODLUM65 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ok I dont have a son, but what strikes me about reading most of the posts on here is that the outcome of the vote, and those who will walk away if scumbags get a yes vote to stay in Spl have Sons & Daughters who won't be attending either. How can the club gauge if their new Season ticket deal is a success or not ? If the outcome is a No vote, I can see the Season ticket deal being a huge success. What do others think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ok I dont have a son, but what strikes me about reading most of the posts on here is that the outcome of the vote, and those who will walk away if scumbags get a yes vote to stay in Spl have Sons & Daughters who won't be attending either. How can the club gauge if their new Season ticket deal is a success or not ? If the outcome is a No vote, I can see the Season ticket deal being a huge success. What do others think ? I've never contemplated a season ticket, but I might just take advantage of the Ormand stand offer, especially of Dundee replace Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mad referee Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 as far as am concerned our chairman must take on board the views of the people he is there to represent THE FANS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhallsdanceband Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 SB and the Boards job is to represent the best interests of the shareholders in St Johnstone FC plc. The 'best interests' are not necessarily financial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Saint Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Come oan lads, democracy. People can vote how they like. I voted no of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 My email to the clun was as follows: To Whom it may concern, I’d like to add my voice to those who wish not to see a newco Rangers Football Club re-admitted to the SPL without making their way through the league system first. I believe that in this instance moral and sporting considerations should be placed ahead of purely business ones. I hope Mr Brown’s rhetoric about St Johnstone being a community club is not empty and that the family of St Johnstone supporters is listened to in this instance. I have been a season ticket holder for several years (although I had a break last year for personal reasons), but I feel would be no longer able to attend matches with my family if it turns out that pound signs have a greater weight than sporting integraty. In short, all of my dreams an illusions about what Saints truly stand for, would be shattered. I would still support a financially bunkrupt St Johnstone playing its games on the Inch, but I would not support a morally bankrupt St Johnstone playing with newco Rangers SPL next season. For the sake of the good of the club and the game at large the St Johnstone supporters are listened to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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