Is The Current Saints Team The Best Ever ?

[rik2304]

Anybody who makes a judgement on something based on what they've read and without actually being present to witness, is a fool. That goes for everything including religion.

Failed history at school type post.

 

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

I did Geography mate. Nice to spark a wee discussion now and again ;-)

Never met Adolf my man, no opinion. 

Just think if all you read in 80 years time were the BBC match reports, let that sink in.

 

[Dr Christmas Jones]

History says Gary Mac was a Scottish cup winner.....that is all x

[Guest ScottMann]

What an absolutely horrific thread. 

Before it started I was so proud to have witnessed Ormond's Saints, a team so good Real Madrid invited them over to play; Sturrock's Saints, the second best footballing side we'd put out in my life time with some cracking players in it and Wright's Saints, the one's to finally deliver the Scottish Cup and some great European results. 

However it turns out I'd been watching a bunch of inconsistent midtablers that were soon relegated, a flash in the pan and a bunch of footballers lucky to be employed in the game.

How soul destroying that a group of hardcore Saints supporters can't discuss the three greatest Saints teams any poster on this site has seen by simply lauding the one they thought best rather than destroying the others to promote their personal favourites.

If all three were playing tomorrow I know which one I'd pay to see but I'm also equally proud of each and every one of them.

[Dr Christmas Jones]

Because it's their right as paying customers over the years to slag off who they please. This is a forum and forums are places where you can discuss,in anonymity what players, referees, managers and whoever you don't really like. 

[wee john]

what an absolute terrific thread.

I am so proud of all the Saints teams I have witnessed, even the bad ones, who still had some memorable players.

it is fantastic that a group of hardcore Saints fans can discuss their favourite teams and players from all eras and that nonbody is destroying any of them, but simply stating a balanced opinion.

i'm sure every single one of us are proud, were proud and always will be proud of each and everyone of them. :-)

 

[babychunder]

what an absolute terrific thread.

I am so proud of all the Saints teams I have witnessed, even the bad ones, who still had some memorable players.

it is fantastic that a group of hardcore Saints fans can discuss their favourite teams and players from all eras and that nonbody is destroying any of them, but simply stating a balanced opinion.

i'm sure every single one of us are proud, were proud and always will be proud of each and everyone of them. :-)

 

...especially the teams they've actually seen play.

[Guest ScottMann]

Because it's their right as paying customers over the years to slag off who they please. This is a forum and forums are places where you can discuss,in anonymity what players, referees, managers and whoever you don't really like. 

Which is exactly what I did but thanks for letting me know how forums work. I never knew.

[Guest ScottMann]

I was so fizzing at what I was reading last night I forgot to expand my top three to four as Totten's side are equally as worthy of such praise as Sturrock's. Pity the future generations will never know how great they could be to watch as their top league positions were middling and Scottish manager of the year awards aren't included in the final tables. It was much more of a pleasure watching them most weeks than loads of other Saints sides and to me that's what matters most even if did mean ending up a few places down the table. 

[blueheaven]

Here's Geoff Brown apparently being massively unreasonable by mentioning league placings to compare the current team to teams of the past...

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/sport/football/st-johnstone/former-chairman-says-tommy-wright-s-st-johnstone-could-be-best-ever-1.914939

 

[rik2304]

Here's Geoff Brown apparently being massively unreasonable by mentioning league placings to compare the current team to teams of the past...

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/sport/football/st-johnstone/former-chairman-says-tommy-wright-s-st-johnstone-could-be-best-ever-1.914939

 

Geoff was around to see those teams though so he is perfectly entitled to comment.

 

Unlike you. Journo scum.

[Cleveland-Saint]

Failed history at school type post.

 

Don't see how you can draw a parallel to a historians depth of research and analysis of World War 2 versus various St Johnstone football matches from the 60s and beyond. Suggest in this case being in person holds a higher degree of credibility than anything history will ever tell us. Not arguing one way or the other on the specific argument, no ****ing clue, the Brogan era was the best saints team ever for me emotionally. I suggest only that emotion, terraces, passion, crowds etc plays a huge part in peoples opinions and memories of greatness also. Historically, the only factor will be feedback on here from those who attended and physical results. 

Nibbling on the tempting worm of the Montrose dig on the highly successful and historically documented POTY (thanks again Ghostie), is that we actually get television in the outer reaches of her majesty's colonies. You'd be amazed at how progressive other clubs are at providing live coverage of their teams for their international supporters and have tapped into our deep pockets to provide a service. It's amazing how other clubs and fan forums support us lost supporter, soulless types... some even have forum sections for them so we can wallow in our pity and fend off trolls while debating how much quinine to put into Ale. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Texas-Saint

[Cleveland-Saint]

p-s

It's historically documented on here that 100% of those attending games miss 33.4% of all action due to outrageous lines for pies, and due to grumbling and firing off dark scowls at the 'young team', while fending off piro and flares thrown in their direction. 

[wee john]

mannus, Easton, McKay, wright, Anderson, wotherspoon, millar, dunne, may, maclean, o'halleron

main, mquillan, dodds, kernaghan, bollan, o'neil, scott, dasovic, kane, simeo, O'Boyle

Donaldson, lambie, Coburn, Gordon, McCarry, roony, McPhee, aird, hall, Connelly, Aitken.

 

Our 3 cup final teams, obviously the most recent one are the most famous as they actually won the final and are down in history as our most successful team ever because of that.

BUT if you look at the 3 teams each faced in the final, then there is no comparison, the Rangers and Celtic teams were immense, giants in Scottish football (or world football in regard to the Celtic team) compared to the United team we beat to win the cup.

We all know it is difficult to compare the team from 1969 to recent teams but we all agree they were a superb team in their era of Scottish football.

But I think we can compare the 1998 team to the 2014 team or the present team and looking at the players I think the 98 team was a better team but as already been pointed out, history does not show that, but memories can.

The 98 team was a joy to watch and there is no doubt in my mind they would be pushing the present Celtic team for the title, and would quite possibly win the league.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by wee john

[rik2304]

Don't see how you can draw a parallel to a historians depth of research and analysis of World War 2 versus various St Johnstone football matches from the 60s and beyond. Suggest in this case being in person holds a higher degree of credibility than anything history will ever tell us. Not arguing one way or the other on the specific argument, no ****ing clue, the Brogan era was the best saints team ever for me emotionally. I suggest only that emotion, terraces, passion, crowds etc plays a huge part in peoples opinions and memories of greatness also. Historically, the only factor will be feedback on here from those who attended and physical results. 

Nibbling on the tempting worm of the Montrose dig on the highly successful and historically documented POTY (thanks again Ghostie), is that we actually get television in the outer reaches of her majesty's colonies. You'd be amazed at how progressive other clubs are at providing live coverage of their teams for their international supporters and have tapped into our deep pockets to provide a service. It's amazing how other clubs and fan forums support us lost supporter, soulless types... some even have forum sections for them so we can wallow in our pity and fend off trolls while debating how much quinine to put into Ale. 

My point was about ARFW rather sweeping generalisation.

[Oldermoresensiblepack]

I did Geography mate. Nice to spark a wee discussion now and again ;-)

Never met Adolf my man, no opinion. 

Just think if all you read in 80 years time were the BBC match reports, let that sink in.

 

You can have an opinion just not a personal one as you weren't there (personally)

Like I could give a personal opinion on every team form 1971 to 1983 having seen them, but from 1984 to 2012 it's just my opinion. Personal would imply you have had some experience of what you are talking about as in "been there done that".

[babychunder]

Wee john's post prompted me to add something about the Celtic team that Ormond's side finished third to. It had half of the Lisbon Lions, conquerors of Europe in it. Plus Dalglish, Macari, Hood and Hay.

Aberdeen (who were second) boasted the likes of Bobby Clark, Martin Buchan, Joe Harper and Alex Willoughby (who I kept getting on football cards, must have had a dozen o the ****er).

Rangers finished behind us (I already posted some of their players) and they won the Cup Winner's Cup the following season.

So, the standard of Scottish football was far higher in those days and finishing third was a truly remarkable achievement.

 

[Cagey]

Wee john's post prompted me to add something about the Celtic team that Ormond's side finished third to. It had half of the Lisbon Lions, conquerors of Europe in it. Plus Dalglish, Macari, Hood and Hay.

Aberdeen (who were second) boasted the likes of Bobby Clark, Martin Buchan, Joe Harper and Alex Willoughby (who I kept getting on football cards, must have had a dozen o the ****er).

Rangers finished behind us (I already posted some of their players) and they won the Cup Winner's Cup the following season.

So, the standard of Scottish football was far higher in those days and finishing third was a truly remarkable achievement.

 

This. Much as I love this team of thee last 2 or 3 seasons ,they do not compare to the Ormond years,. Scotland were a force in world football during those years with most of the Scotland internationals playing in Scotland. Different era Different class.

[Guest ScottMann]

Wee john's post prompted me to add something about the Celtic team that Ormond's side finished third to. It had half of the Lisbon Lions, conquerors of Europe in it. Plus Dalglish, Macari, Hood and Hay.

Aberdeen (who were second) boasted the likes of Bobby Clark, Martin Buchan, Joe Harper and Alex Willoughby (who I kept getting on football cards, must have had a dozen o the ****er).

Rangers finished behind us (I already posted some of their players) and they won the Cup Winner's Cup the following season.

So, the standard of Scottish football was far higher in those days and finishing third was a truly remarkable achievement.

I think that during that period the Old Firm both reached Euro Finals twice each, were regular Euro quarter/semi finalists and at least two, maybe three, other teams reached Euro semi finals. 

[sixties saintee]

Aye Geoff Brown knows what he is talking about.

[Abernethy Saint]

Younger viewers need to delve into the history books to understand how much more of a force we were in European football in them there days. Kilmarnock, Dundee, Hibs, Dead Rangers and Sellick all reached quarters and semis. The weird thing was, we never qualified for the World Cup, mainly due to horrendous draws (Italy, Germany etc) at a time when you had to win the group. 

[ex-montrosesaintee]

I wasn't very proud of our team at Ochilview when we got pumped by Stenhousmuir.  

I'm usually proud of them though.

I was at the 98 cup final, and one of my first memories of the footy was the 89 semi final against Rangers, so I can't speak for the 69 team, but for me football is about anticipation and what the team CAN achieve.  It's easy to look at results and achievements, but once they're in the bag they are memories.  What makes football exciting is what is about to happen.  The current team CAN win another trophy, and they CAN finish higher in the league than we ever have.  That's enough for me.

[Coltrane]

Wee john's post prompted me to add something about the Celtic team that Ormond's side finished third to. It had half of the Lisbon Lions, conquerors of Europe in it. Plus Dalglish, Macari, Hood and Hay.

Aberdeen (who were second) boasted the likes of Bobby Clark, Martin Buchan, Joe Harper and Alex Willoughby (who I kept getting on football cards, must have had a dozen o the ****er).

Rangers finished behind us (I already posted some of their players) and they won the Cup Winner's Cup the following season.

So, the standard of Scottish football was far higher in those days and finishing third was a truly remarkable achievement.

 

Added to that - the Scottish national team were pretty much a world force in these days too...beating England after they won the World Cup etc etc etc.  Lots of world class players playing in or coming from Scotland.  For Saints to come 3rd in a league of that quality was a very big deal. 

[babychunder]

Season 1972-1973 efter the Cup run. Remember it started well with five or six wins on the bounce. We got gubbed home and away by either Newcastle or Ipswich or somebody like that in the auld Texaco cup. Particularly memorable (not) was getting tanked at Tannadump on New Years Day. That wis high tide and we couldnae beat anybody after that. We finished mid table as I recall, nae danger of relegation, which came later....

[Dr Christmas Jones]

I wasn't very proud of our team at Ochilview when we got pumped by Stenhousmuir.  

I'm usually proud of them though.

I was at the 98 cup final, and one of my first memories of the footy was the 89 semi final against Rangers, so I can't speak for the 69 team, but for me football is about anticipation and what the team CAN achieve.  It's easy to look at results and achievements, but once they're in the bag they are memories.  What makes football exciting is what is about to happen.  The current team CAN win another trophy, and they CAN finish higher in the league than we ever have.  That's enough for me.

Not sure I would be proud of any team involved in 69s tbh