Summer transfers/contracts 2023

[Cagey]

Ross Sinclair's contract extended to May 2026. Strange.

[RandomGuy]

23 minutes ago, Cleveland-Saint said:

In that scenario, where he 'failed' to progress from youth system/u23's to 1st team championship, was loaned out, why wouldn't Burnley have dropped him completely. They are now premiership and by that reckoning, it's now extremely unlikely he plays for them again.

Theyll never just pay off a young player incase they suddenly catch fire. His contract expires next Summer so this will be his last chance, and then theyll let him go if he fails, or extend his deal if he impresses.

[PSJ.84]

14 minutes ago, Cagey said:

Ross Sinclair's contract extended to May 2026. Strange.

Is it strange?

[Maskrey]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Hes here for game time but i struggle to see any proof at all hes "much higher quality" than any of Wright, Kane or Clark.

He struggled in League Two with Bradford last season and thats his only senior experience. I wouldnt be thinking his game time for Burnley is anything more than rewarding someone doing well in the youth set up as an example.

Had a hard time at Bradford and that can happen but even his time in the U23s shows that he can be a player who is up a level from what we have.  Also none of those 3 players would get near the Bradford squad.  The fact they want to loan him out shows the faith they have in him.

[blueheaven]

2 hours ago, Cleveland-Saint said:

In that scenario, where he 'failed' to progress from youth system/u23's to 1st team championship, was loaned out, why wouldn't Burnley have dropped him completely. They are now premiership and by that reckoning, it's now extremely unlikely he plays for them again.

Genuine question here, not trying to over engineer a happy clapper event. 

Reading Burnley forums from just 18 months ago, genuine hope for him to progress after doing well in under 23s. Bradford read like a shit show, but maybe other factors there.

 

Burnley probably have very little to lose by just holding onto him until the end of his contract and seeing how he develops. Clubs at that level seem to have loads of these kind of guys kicking around. They all go out on multiple loans and they either make the grade or they get cut loose at the end of their contracts. By this time next year Burnley could be back in the Championship and maybe there'll be more of an opportunity for him there, but I think he'll need to have one helluva season at Saints for them to offer him another deal. On the other hand, if he shows a bit of promise here and enjoys his time in Scotland, maybe Saints will be able to offer him something for the future and see if he can continue his development here. It probably suits everyone involved pretty well.

[HertsAgain]

1 hour ago, PSJ.84 said:

Is it strange?

Over the years, Saints have made a habit of signing or extending the contracts of players that are prone to injury, and  who seem to spend inordinate amounts of time out of contention.  I guess that's where the reputation for being sentimental comes in - we so seem to bring old bring players back in some capacity, and "stand by" long term crocks  more than other clubs - too much for my liking.  Muzz, Spoony, Chris Kane, Stevie May and more recently Clark all fit that mould.  If the club is struggling for cash at the moment, it seems strange to me that this is another example - surely in Macca's longer term way of thinking, he'd want us to avoid giving contracts to players who aren't actually going to be playing.

[Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II]

Just to clear all this up, Ross signed his 3-year contract extension on the Friday.......!    The bounce game in which he then suffered his season ending injury was then held on the Monday afternoon.  So any criticism levelled at the club for this is just plainly wrong.

[saintee in exile]

Kinda given up on this season before it's got going.The signs arent good and it's hard to take many positives bar the goalie from the squad.I think if we make the play offs we will be doing well!Totally galling really.All the good work and momentum created previously has shuddered to a grinding halt.

[HertsAgain]

9 minutes ago, Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II said:

Just to clear all this up, Ross signed his 3-year contract extension on the Friday.......!    The bounce game in which he then suffered his season ending injury was then held on the Monday afternoon.  So any criticism levelled at the club for this is just plainly wrong.

Regardless, the points made re Saints and previous injury prone players still stand.

[Pat McGroin]

29 minutes ago, HertsAgain said:

Over the years, Saints have made a habit of signing or extending the contracts of players that are prone to injury, and  who seem to spend inordinate amounts of time out of contention.  I guess that's where the reputation for being sentimental comes in - we so seem to bring old bring players back in some capacity, and "stand by" long term crocks  more than other clubs - too much for my liking.  Muzz, Spoony, Chris Kane, Stevie May and more recently Clark all fit that mould.  If the club is struggling for cash at the moment, it seems strange to me that this is another example - surely in Macca's longer term way of thinking, he'd want us to avoid giving contracts to players who aren't actually going to be playing.

I remember Spoony having one major injury and being released at the end of his deal. 
 

Don’t remember May being out for too long with us at all.

[PSJ.84]

18 minutes ago, HertsAgain said:

Over the years, Saints have made a habit of signing or extending the contracts of players that are prone to injury, and  who seem to spend inordinate amounts of time out of contention.  I guess that's where the reputation for being sentimental comes in - we so seem to bring old bring players back in some capacity, and "stand by" long term crocks  more than other clubs - too much for my liking.  Muzz, Spoony, Chris Kane, Stevie May and more recently Clark all fit that mould.  If the club is struggling for cash at the moment, it seems strange to me that this is another example - surely in Macca's longer term way of thinking, he'd want us to avoid giving contracts to players who aren't actually going to be playing.

I don’t think any of those are relevant to be honest. This isn’t a player in their mid-to-late 20’s who’s had constant niggling issues or one specific problem that’s kept coming back throughout his career. He’s only 22 so whilst he would’ve been involved this season, he’s very much for the future as well. His contract was due to expire at the end of the season and it was one they spoke about renewing back in about April. 
 

There’s a lot of things the club deserve criticism for right now but renewing the contract of a promising young player, despite him being out injured, isn’t one. 

[Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II]

8 minutes ago, HertsAgain said:

Regardless, the points made re Saints and previous injury prone players still stand.

See i'm not convinced they are.  No doubt that Murray suffered a number of injuries throughout his time with us, mainly down to his playing style, but i'm fairly confident we still got 20+ appearances minimum from him over the majority of they years. 

Other than the ACL injury Spoony picked up against Celtic in the cup game which basically kept him out for a calendar year I don't really recall him suffering any significant injury in all his years with us. 

Same with May and Kane, May got a particularly bad injury after he left us, but apart from the odd niggle here and there to call him injury prone seems harsh. 

[Lt. Col Kojak Slaphead II]

Just now, PSJ.84 said:

I don’t think any of those are relevant to be honest. This isn’t a player in their mid-to-late 20’s who’s had constant niggling issues or one specific problem that’s kept coming back throughout his career. He’s only 22 so whilst he would’ve been involved this season, he’s very much for the future as well. His contract was due to expire at the end of the season and it was one they spoke about renewing back in about April. 
 

There’s a lot of things the club deserve criticism for right now but renewing the contract of a promising young player, despite him being out injured, isn’t one. 

Very much this!  and even less so when he signed said contract extension when he was 100% fit. 🤣

[blueheaven]

40 minutes ago, HertsAgain said:

Over the years, Saints have made a habit of signing or extending the contracts of players that are prone to injury, and  who seem to spend inordinate amounts of time out of contention.  I guess that's where the reputation for being sentimental comes in - we so seem to bring old bring players back in some capacity, and "stand by" long term crocks  more than other clubs - too much for my liking.  Muzz, Spoony, Chris Kane, Stevie May and more recently Clark all fit that mould.  If the club is struggling for cash at the moment, it seems strange to me that this is another example - surely in Macca's longer term way of thinking, he'd want us to avoid giving contracts to players who aren't actually going to be playing.

I'd argue that a lot of the things you bemoan here are actually things that contributed hugely to our success over the last 10-15 years. We've had a lot of continuity in our squad because we've stood by players and they, in turn, have felt well treated and have wanted to stay here. Likewise, the fact that quite a few players have departed and then returned, shows that they've left the club on good terms and enjoyed being here. That reputation for treating players well and giving them some long-term stability will also have helped us to attract new signings over the years, perhaps even at times when they might have been offered better money elsewhere.

Is that acting out of sentiment, or is it treating people well and fostering a good working atmosphere which, in turn, has helped to create the most successful St Johnstone era in history?

If anything, it's since we've lost that approach and have had a much higher turn-over of players, often signing lots of players on short term deals, that that success has started to vanish and we've found ourselves in successive relegation battles.

[RandomGuy]

2 hours ago, Maskrey said:

Had a hard time at Bradford and that can happen but even his time in the U23s shows that he can be a player who is up a level from what we have.  Also none of those 3 players would get near the Bradford squad.  The fact they want to loan him out shows the faith they have in him.

What?

The EPL U23s is absolutely not a level above the Scottish Premiership, so ive no idea why youre claiming hes clearly a step up. Chelseas U23 captain utterly failed in  League One for Falkirk.

As for claiming none of the 3 would start for Bradford, thats just not true either.

[saintee in exile]

I think he might up a level from what we have in the present squad not the level of the SPL

[south inch]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:16 PM, Indicator said:

Presently scouring the lower EFL for an Abbott who's looking for a loan deal to a Scottish club.

Happy days, Bud Abbot and Lou Costello at the Kings or the BBs..  I think Bud was the striker.

[saintgscot]

9 hours ago, HertsAgain said:

Regardless, the points made re Saints and previous injury prone players still stand.

Clark isn’t a injury prone player though if u look at his career.

[Southpaw]

18 hours ago, HertsAgain said:

Over the years, Saints have made a habit of signing or extending the contracts of players that are prone to injury, and  who seem to spend inordinate amounts of time out of contention.  I guess that's where the reputation for being sentimental comes in - we so seem to bring old bring players back in some capacity, and "stand by" long term crocks  more than other clubs - too much for my liking.  Muzz, Spoony, Chris Kane, Stevie May and more recently Clark all fit that mould.  If the club is struggling for cash at the moment, it seems strange to me that this is another example - surely in Macca's longer term way of thinking, he'd want us to avoid giving contracts to players who aren't actually going to be playing.

Yes, this is a bit of an odd take when you're criticising the club for giving contracts out to "crocks" then listing the a lot of the key players who've brought us success over the past 10 years. 

[Maskrey]

21 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

What?

The EPL U23s is absolutely not a level above the Scottish Premiership, so ive no idea why youre claiming hes clearly a step up. Chelseas U23 captain utterly failed in  League One for Falkirk.

As for claiming none of the 3 would start for Bradford, thats just not true either.

Look he is a level up from what we currently have in the squad.  We would struggle in League 2 and it’s fairly certain that none of these 3 would get game time at Bradford.  We can’t even compete with a team like Bradford for players.  You seem desperate to say it’s not a good signing.  

[Linky]

5 minutes ago, Maskrey said:

Look he is a level up from what we currently have in the squad.  We would struggle in League 2 and it’s fairly certain that none of these 3 would get game time at Bradford.  We can’t even compete with a team like Bradford for players.  You seem desperate to say it’s not a good signing.  

He might be a great signing, but I do think it's odd to say that a player who struggled in League 2 with Bradford is going to be a 'level up' from the players we have. Carey's last club are currently in the Europa Conference League, but it doesn't mean much

[blueheaven]

41 minutes ago, Maskrey said:

Look he is a level up from what we currently have in the squad.  We would struggle in League 2 and it’s fairly certain that none of these 3 would get game time at Bradford.  We can’t even compete with a team like Bradford for players.  You seem desperate to say it’s not a good signing.  

Connor McLennan seems to be doing OK for himself in League Two so I'd really question anyone trying to argue that some of our better players couldn't get game time for Bradford. 

To be honest I'd be pretty surprised if a 20-year-old who has played very few senior games and struggled at Bradford turns out to be "a level up" from our current players. He hopefully has the potential to get there, though.

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, Maskrey said:

Look he is a level up from what we currently have in the squad.  We would struggle in League 2 and it’s fairly certain that none of these 3 would get game time at Bradford.  We can’t even compete with a team like Bradford for players.  You seem desperate to say it’s not a good signing.  

Im going to stop this here, as we're going in circles.

Ive no idea about our new signing bar the fact he seemed to struggle to make an impact for Bradford. I dont see any point in pretending otherwise and its not "desperation" to paint it as a bad deal.

Ive also no idea why youre claiming Bradford is a step up from us.

[rik2304]

He's been talked up by Kompany.

That's fair enough a lot of managers do that with young players and he got an opportunity in the Burnley first team. 

He might not be kicking on though as his Bradford spell seems to have been very unremarkable. 

[saintgscot]

6 hours ago, RandomGuy said:

Im going to stop this here, as we're going in circles.

Ive no idea about our new signing bar the fact he seemed to struggle to make an impact for Bradford. I dont see any point in pretending otherwise and its not "desperation" to paint it as a bad deal.

Ive also no idea why youre claiming Bradford is a step up from us.

Theo Bair struggled to make an impact with us but he making one at Motherwell. (Sarcasm)