St.Johnstone V Kilmarnock - Saturday 13th April

[RandomGuy]

We played a 4 at the back, but with Gallacher as a left winger and nobody on the right.

Interestingly McInnes says the identified our style as 5-4-1 with a midfield diamond, which is probably correct.

[Cagey]

One team going for Europe and the other trying to avoid the play offs and it showed.

They attacked , we tried to stop their attacks. We always play the first half in our own half trying not to lose a goal but we usually do and allow opponents the build confidence and usually a goal.

We usually end up chasing the game and we are a team with lack of confidence and with the threat of relegation hanging over our head. Not conducive with good relaxed football.

[Indicator]

40 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

We played a 4 at the back, but with Gallacher as a left winger and nobody on the right.

Interestingly McInnes says the identified our style as 5-4-1 with a midfield diamond, which is probably correct.

Who was the midfield diamond...?

I'll get ma coat.

[Melbourne Saint]

I refer to it as the McDiarmid curse... We've been crap at home for years.. away games alright. I get our tactics are counter attack, but it's a 3 pointer for away teams. Sell to the American lot and let them develop the land, build a new stadium and just maybe the curse of McDiarmid will be gone... It served it's purpose well in the early years 

[johndb]

Saints eventually reach take off velocity? ... or don't they anymore?

 

We need a messiah like Henry Hall what a shot in the arm he was!

[Melbourne Saint]

6 minutes ago, johndb said:

Saints eventually reach take off velocity? ... or don't they anymore?

 

We need a messiah like Henry Hall what a shot in the arm he was!

More like a failed North Korean rocket launch

[Ritspeed]

1 hour ago, Melbourne Saint said:

More like a failed North Korean rocket launch

Nonsense. 

[Ritspeed]

I've just watched the post match interview and felt that Craig Levein show'd more emotion for Saints wellbeing than ever.  I get the 'hands in the pocket' critisism and appreciate the fans concerns but, maybe, Levein is beginning to buy into Saints (maybe talking to Geoff) and he can get us through this to safety.  Despite criticisms I do think we have the squad to get through this - caveated with the niggling uncertainty that they're being coached in the right way. 

[Indicator]

9 minutes ago, Ritspeed said:

I've just watched the post match interview and felt that Craig Levein show'd more emotion for Saints wellbeing than ever.  I get the 'hands in the pocket' critisism and appreciate the fans concerns but, maybe, Levein is beginning to buy into Saints (maybe talking to Geoff) and he can get us through this to safety.  Despite criticisms I do think we have the squad to get through this - caveated with the niggling uncertainty that they're being coached in the right way. 

Likewise, This.

[Cagey]

6 minutes ago, Ritspeed said:

I've just watched the post match interview and felt that Craig Levein show'd more emotion for Saints wellbeing than ever.  I get the 'hands in the pocket' critisism and appreciate the fans concerns but, maybe, Levein is beginning to buy into Saints (maybe talking to Geoff) and he can get us through this to safety.  Despite criticisms I do think we have the squad to get through this - caveated with the niggling uncertainty that they're being coached in the right way. 

There is no one in that squad that are not signed that I would want to see next season.

I would also hope that emotionless mumbling Levein is gone as well. I don't want to see anti football again next season.

[Havana Saint]

Two very cheap goals. The worst moment for me in the first half (there were several incidents to be fair) was when Robinson and Gallacher doubled up on Armstrong and the Killie winger was easily able to swing in a perfect cross.  The lack of intensity in getting in the faces of the opposition was really sad. It seems a culture of defeatism across the team, something which was evident in the teams since 2021.  Not good enough all over the pitch. Sad, really sad. It's been rotten football for far too long.

[pezza70]

The frustrating or disappointing thing is we put up a good performance and get the 3 points like against Hibs and we then follow it up with pish and we look like a team again who are relegation bound.

These false dawns are enough to keep CL picking players out of position and out of form as he thinks his system and tactics are working.

[Melbourne Saint]

2 hours ago, Ritspeed said:

Nonsense. 

I was referring to Saints "reaching take off velocity". Muppet 

[slf]

12 hours ago, Melbourne Saint said:

More like a failed North Korean rocket launch

Fuq off

you never saw Henry hall 

 

[slf]

Just now, slf said:

7 hours ago, Melbourne Saint said:

I was referring to Saints "reaching take off velocity". Muppet

Your the muppet 

[Radford 72]

14 hours ago, PSJ.84 said:

I think we were a four at the back today - and have been for the last while - but Gallacher on the left wing is just cruel. 

Yep. Was staggered when the manager described it as a back three last week.

[blueheaven]

I'm just completely baffled as to what Levein is actually doing. Week after week he sends us out with square pegs in round holes all over the pitch. Gallacher is barely good enough for his actual position, let alone being started each week in the wrong position. Matt Smith and Kucheriavyi seem eternally confused about which one of them is playing on the right and which one of them is playing in the middle. Why move Smith out of the middle of the park to accommodate Kucheriavyi anyway, when Max has struggled so much to make an impact? And why do we keep playing Nicky Clark so far back in midfield when it's so obviously nullifying his impact and depriving us of the things he's actually good at?

And then there's the substitutions. Week after week we see Sidibeh staggering around absolutely knackered by the hour-mark, and Levein doing nothing about it until it's way too late. He brought May and Kimpioka on in the 88th minute when we'd needed that change almost half an hour earlier. Why not give these guys a chance to settle into the game, get on the end of a few chances and maybe make a difference? That's on top of last week when he bafflingly brought May on in the 93rd minute while we were trying to defend a corner. Absolute madness.

I'm so bored of seeing opposition managers encourage their teams and talk to their players and make proactive substitutions and adapt their in-game tactics, while Levein and Kirk stand there chatting to each other and changing nothing. And at the end of it all he does yet another interview where he talks as if he has no idea why his plan hasn't worked, when everyone else in the stadium can see exactly why it hasn't worked.

I know the squad is poor at the moment but I'm absolutely certain a good manager would be able to get us doing better than this. We just look so poorly organised, so badly coached, so unmotivated and lacking in fight, and a lot of our players don't even look fit. That's nowhere near good enough. Some of these things are just basic starting points that Levein and Kirk have just completely failed to establish.

This guy has been managing football teams at all sorts of levels for over 25 years. He was the f*cking Scotland manager for three years. Is this seriously all he's picked up in that time? He really can't come up with a better plan than this? He seriously can't even just put some footballers into their best positions? It's horrific. Just horrific.

Please, please, please get this guy out of our club and give us a manager who is actually hungry for the job and has some ideas and has some ambitions beyond giving management another go in-between media or "upstairs" jobs.

[crieffsaintandy]

11 hours ago, Havana Saint said:

Two very cheap goals. The worst moment for me in the first half (there were several incidents to be fair) was when Robinson and Gallacher doubled up on Armstrong and the Killie winger was easily able to swing in a perfect cross.  The lack of intensity in getting in the faces of the opposition was really sad. It seems a culture of defeatism across the team, something which was evident in the teams since 2021.  Not good enough all over the pitch. Sad, really sad. It's been rotten football for far too long.

They were ripping us down that side so obvious to see, Robinson had a few good games before January when I think he thought he had a chance at Wigan and probably more comfortable at left centre than fullback, but since he has come back he has regressed so much, defensively awful, chaps out of tackles, takes the easy option turning back a lot of the time, because when he does push forward he is decent, but just not good enough, dave on the other side has been poor and posted missing for the second, will give him the benefit that he isn't a defender and needs a pre season, as someone says above I wouldn't take any off them that are out if contract back, as they are all culpable and the majority not good enough. Levein I think he dies want us to do well but the set up and lack of subs baffle me when you see guys at 60 minutes puffing. The whole he doesn't rant on rave on the sidelines doesn't mean anything, but keep hearing we will be okay, I'm no so sure relying on this shower of wage thieves,most don't care or give a shit.

[RandomGuy]

I think we're in the same situation as we've been for years, in that the manager thinks we need to play a back 5, a midfield 4, and a front 2, as he doesn't trust the team to defend without 3 CBs or 4 midfielders.

Lately we've tried Gallacher at LM as he can cover as a LWB if/when we defend and that makes your back 5, and Clark drops into midfield to make the midfield 4. So defensively its 5-4-1 with the diamond midfield shape McInnes talked about. That leaves us exposed out wide, but our midfield is so soft it doesn't stop teams there either.

In attack its meant to become a 4-4-2 with Gallacher and Clark pushing up, and either Smith or Kucheriavyi going right. But that falls apart as we just hoof it and lose it so nobody can get into the shape, and then if we do keep the ball everything moves so slowly that teams are back into shape before we are and with nobody capable of beating a man it's easy to defend against.

It would be less of an issue shape wise if anything other than a hoof to Sidibeh was done quickly, but Levein won't encourage that play as it's risky and would mean we lose the ball without having a shape, which leads to us being open as all over the park we have players who can't track runners. So we're constantly fluxing between 2 different shapes, while players are told to prioritise safety against counters, which leads to random spurts of some gambling and others not which leads to a shambles as we play neither shape most of the time.

He's not going to encourage more risks in the position we're in, until it gets too much pressure wise like before Aberdeen, so we just have to hope it works out. His previous career suggests that's just who he is too, the United squad he built is a long way ago and it's like experience has made him more cautious.

Edited April 14 by RandomGuy

[dave mc]

^^^^Just not playing a keeper? 

[RandomGuy]

8 minutes ago, dave mc said:

^^^^Just not playing a keeper? 

That's the point. We have managers and squads who want to play a shape that isn't possible to play.

[SaintJet]

I though we played reasonably well early on but it was clear from the start that Killie were going to try and exert their superiority on us; even winning the toss and deciding to to go with the wind in the first half was a statement of intent.

I had a feeling that the first goal was going to be pivitol and was hoping we could have hung on until half time but as usual we gave away a sloppy goal and you just knew we were up against it. There were some really tardy performances too especially Dan who looked out of sorts and was wanting too long on the ball. Fairplay to Del, he done his homework and indentified Sid as a real threat and had him closed down or fouled to stop him getting in behind. The body check on him prior to half time was awful- in Rugby that's a red card how come VAR couldn't see that?

Nicky Clark missed a real chance early on and seemed ineffectual the whole game. We don't have any flair or invention in midfield if Carey isn't on- Max was a passanger. There was nothing that gave me encouragment for the run in.

I'm raking over the coals here but I thought McGowan was our best player again and I even thought Gallacher was pretty tidy and I've been on his back all season. Matt Smith the only other who was worthy of a mention.

Ross winning on Sunday put the tin lid on the weekend.

[rik2304]

46 minutes ago, SaintJet said:

I though we played reasonably well early on but it was clear from the start that Killie were going to try and exert their superiority on us; even winning the toss and deciding to to go with the wind in the first half was a statement of intent.

I had a feeling that the first goal was going to be pivitol and was hoping we could have hung on until half time but as usual we gave away a sloppy goal and you just knew we were up against it. There were some really tardy performances too especially Dan who looked out of sorts and was wanting too long on the ball. Fairplay to Del, he done his homework and indentified Sid as a real threat and had him closed down or fouled to stop him getting in behind. The body check on him prior to half time was awful- in Rugby that's a red card how come VAR couldn't see that?

Nicky Clark missed a real chance early on and seemed ineffectual the whole game. We don't have any flair or invention in midfield if Carey isn't on- Max was a passanger. There was nothing that gave me encouragment for the run in.

I'm raking over the coals here but I thought McGowan was our best player again and I even thought Gallacher was pretty tidy and I've been on his back all season. Matt Smith the only other who was worthy of a mention.

Ross winning on Sunday put the tin lid on the weekend.

Surely that's just basic management from McInnes? 

Not having a dig at you but that's just the basics and we've missed it for years now.

[Stumpy1949]

The biggest problem seems to be that the fans at the game and in fact Derek McInnes doesn’t seem to know if we were play 4 or 5 at the back. Organised chaos. 

[SaintJet]

36 minutes ago, rik2304 said:

Surely that's just basic management from McInnes? 

Not having a dig at you but that's just the basics and we've missed it for years now.

I have to agree with you but my point was that Sidibea , who relatively new on the block, can have a huge influence on games with his pace and Killie did their due diligence.

I suspect when we meet Abredeen and Ross they will be well up for closing down Kimpy and Sid to keep them quiet.