Crowd At Home

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

I think you may have inadvertently have hit the nail on the head there. The reason that people pay top dollar to go to a Scotland rugby match is for the sense of occasion. Even the most die hard fan is not going to much more than 5 home games a year.

The spl breeds familiarity, which breeds, well maybe not contempt, but certainly breeds complacency.

Missed that game against st mirren? Don't worry another one will be along in a few weeks.

I kinda like the idea of wandering down early doors. A pint or two in the muirton suite, watching whatever game is showing on the big screen, while the kids meet players and squad members not playing that day.

A decent eatery catering more than pies and hot dogs? Pizzas an burgers? For pre and post match, or pre ordered for half time?

The ability to buy a ticket at a discounted price for the next home match while I am there? (A quid off, nothing to buckle the club)

Sorry ghosty, I have to disagree with you. At the moment I will get better value bringing the kids to sportsters and the cinema. And an experience that lasts longer and caters for different needs.

Each to there own, but I have only been over for one league match this season, and I almost, almost but not quite... , almost turned away at the door, as I was having difficulty justifying the cost to my self.

I don't know if it was the psychological barrier of forking out excess 20 quid, but it was hard paying that.

Which brings me back to my original point, if it was more of an occasion, or if I was getting vfm, I would not have minded. I enjoyed the game, but if I was in a position to go to the next match with things as they are now, I am not sure I would.

On the value point, that is fine if that's what you want. I am not gonna diss you for that. It's your choice as it is for everyone but as I have said already, if the club has to downsize and we drop down the leagues as a direct result of a lack of income, then those that decided that the cinema or pop concert or rugby or whatever was a better option will have lost any right to complain. I am not gonna cheer lead to get anyone to go to a game. I am going and there are others like me who are happy enough with what we get.

On the point you make about "more of an occasion" What exactly would make it that?? And finally, what would make it acceptable in a VFM sense ???

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

Ghostie, clearly you are the Daddy on this site. But you're not getting it. Here's an example. You and others keep chunting on about something called "the Muirton Suite". I've supported Saints all my life. I've been to a good few games, would love to go to more.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE MUIRTON SUITE IS, WHERE IT IS, WHAT IT DOES, WHAT IT COSTS etc etc etc. Why the fek would I - you and the other die-hards on here have never explained it.

The point is, you keep on assuming we all know what this stuff is - buses? Clubs? Suites? Drinks before/after the game? Ticket offers? - and then getting annoyed at us cos we don't buy it. We NEED a sticky on this site where someone sets out in English, not cliquey one-liner crap, what these mysterious inner-circle things actually involve. HOW do we join the clubs. HOW the various bus options operate. What the Muirton Suite is and why we should go to it.

1. This is how you cango to away matches. There are several options. blah blah.

2. This is where we meet up before the game. blah blah.

etc etc

I've said before on here that you need a "newbie" or "FAQ" site where you stop complaining about folk not joining in, and explain exactly, in simple English, exactly what you do.

Please don't replay quickly.Have a think, chat to Jamie or whatever, and sort this out.

Rant over. Remember the vast majority of folk you're trying to attract haven't a feckin clue what the feckin ghostie bus is, the muirton suite. Stop being so cliquey, EXPLAIN what's on offer, professionally, and you'll be amazed what might happen

Rant now truely over.

Really no need to speak to Jamie or think to much. ALL the info you require can be found SIMPLY on here and on the OS as well as FB and also the match programme and the Perthshire Advertiser.

Muirton Suite.... Why would I have to explain something about the MS. The OS, this forum and FB as well as the Perthshire Advertiser and the match programme have all carried info regarding pre and post match facilities in the MS. Perhaps I could ask someone from the club to just give you a phone to tell you personally about these things.

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=1968

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=2246

As for buses. The Bus running from the club is advertised on the OS for EVERY game as well as FB.

Our own WAP Barossa Street Saints club Ghost tours are fully explained and STICKIED here.. http://www.weareperth.co.uk/wapforum/index.php?/forum/43-we-are-perth-barossa-street-st-johnstone-supporters-club/

If this is still causing you difficulty ( witty one liner on it's way) may I suggest you visit the PRI and ask if they can remove yoor head from your arse

[ancientsaint]

The cinema costs about £7 for two hours.

As opposed to-----The red light district in Dundee or Glasgow etc etc where it costs about £7 for Two hoors

[Legend of Zorro]

I`m no quite getting this, Ghostie is telling it how it is, we all agree the prices are too high but why, why, can other teams whio are paying the same (or cheaper SFL1) prices have a better more, larger support than us. Last week Falkirk played Cowdenbeath in the first division and had crowd od of 2700, Saints played hearts and had 2970. Cowwdenbeath brought 80 to Falkirk, Hearts brought 800 to Perth, Perth is bigger than Falkirk.I think we need to start looking nearer to home instead of blaming stewards, prices etc. The more I hate to say it the people of Perth & Kinross do not support there team. Why can`t we just accept that we have the most fickle support where at the moment we are sitting 5th & can`t attract a home support of more than 2200.

I agree that Saints pr is embarassing but we all knew the prices at the start of the season & still there was no uptake, I have a season ticket in the Ormond with my boy & its totally embarassing, there must have been about 100 in there last week.

How can we take 2200 to Dundee but can`t get anymore at home.

Get out there, your team needs you!!

I agree with Ghostie the away European experience was one of my best moments as a Saints fan (along with the 5-2 against Albion Rovers in 89!), these days will be finished if the good people of Perth & Kinross can`t back their team. Stop talking shit, if your a Saints fan the club needs you now!

[Gort]

Be honest, SPL football shouldn't be more than a tenner with the number of people out of work etc. And it gets worse, it looks like they are keeping the silly leagues of twelve. So much for the new era in Scottish football.

[john1962]

The international matchday experience is probably an unfair comparison. The cheapest adult ticket for the upcoming Edinburgh v Glasgow game is £15.

Which will sell out because its a derby. St Paddy I think is correct in talking about the familiarity. Playing each team 4 times is boring.

I also think that people get out of the habit of going. It then becomes much easier to find other things to spend money on. My current situation makes going to nearly every game this year impossible so I decided that going to home games is more important than away games. Had to give up other things but if I had decided to give up all games I am not sure that when things turn round I would have been able to justify going back to games.

[rik2304]

Nah, it wont sell out in a million years. On a good day the Edinburgh can get about 3500 fans, and thats to see a load of Scottish internationals.

I think it may boil down to Perth just not being a very footbally town.

Look at other towns when there is an open top tour, absolutely heaving. Not really the case when Saints have done it however. It can only be a cultural thing. Perhaps the Big County has historically offered a more outdoorsy lifestyle.

The crowds can turn out though, Airdrie game in 89, Dundee game in 98, Monaco, Eses. Every now and again when there is an occasion. Maybe a couple of seasons of over achieving can brings the fans back again.

[Saint madoe]

Be honest, SPL football shouldn't be more than a tenner with the number of people out of work etc. And it gets worse, it looks like they are keeping the silly leagues of twelve. So much for the new era in Scottish football.

So what happens if saints drop the price to £10 and the attendance is still 2000 odd?

[truefaith]

So what happens if saints drop the price to £10 and the attendance is still 2000 odd?

I've banged on about this in the past, but in our first Premier season in 1990, a ticket to the East Stand cost £7, adjusting for inflation. So it's tripled in price in real terms. And I don't think anyone would suggest the fare on offer has significantly improved, while the alternatives to spending a Saturday at McDiarmid have mushroomed.

That said, I'm not sure prices would rise significantly if Saints dropped prices now. The damage has been done over past years: continuing to increase prices for an ever-smaller core of fans. Once you're out of the habit of going every week, it's much easier to justify not going back. I think the parent and child ticket is a good idea, but it's got to run for several years before the club will see the benefit.

There are other reasons for lower crowds of course, some personal. For example, shifting game times for TV meant I missed too many games coming through from Edinburgh and got out of the routine of Saturday afternoon football, while some fans' language and aggression made me uncomfortable bringing kids. That wouldn't be so much of an issue now with the Ormond Stand.

[Edstar101]

So what happens if saints drop the price to £10 and the attendance is still 2000 odd?

It will be. The price change won't suddenly mean 8000 are cramming into the ground, but sometimes you gotta speculate to accumulate

Get a war chest put aside to offset the initial hit and see how it goes. People often wonder if they won money and put some into Saints, what would actually happen to it. If the situation ever occured where I could afford to give them a decent sum, that is exactly what I would ask it went towards.....drop admission and use my funds to top up the loss on any given day

[Dave Ferg]

Lowering the price to league of Ireland levels would be financial suicide and would never be an option.

[john1962]

Nah, it wont sell out in a million years. On a good day the Edinburgh can get about 3500 fans, and thats to see a load of Scottish internationals.

I think it may boil down to Perth just not being a very footbally town.

Look at other towns when there is an open top tour, absolutely heaving. Not really the case when Saints have done it however. It can only be a cultural thing. Perhaps the Big County has historically offered a more outdoorsy lifestyle.

The crowds can turn out though, Airdrie game in 89, Dundee game in 98, Monaco, Eses. Every now and again when there is an occasion. Maybe a couple of seasons of over achieving can brings the fans back again.

Just a last one as its almost off topic but the game tomorrow at Scotstoun is only a couple of hundred from selling out. They have erected temporary stands. Now Glasgow only play Edinburgh twice a season. That can't be a coincidence. As much as I line our games against Dundee and Utd there are eight a season. You would usually struggle to tell one game from the next.

[Strawman]

I have to admit to being confused as to what it is people want.

As far as I can see communication from the club has never been better. The Facebook page is quite a new thing as is updates on Twitter.

When I started watching Saints in the 80 s there was no such things as WearePerth, Websites, etc your news came from the Programme, PA and the infrequent but brilliant Wendywho. Somehow people still made it to games though.

It seems that nowadays we want to be spoon fed and people are looking for ways to justify why they dont support their team anymore.

What really confuses me are the folks that want everything as modern as can be in terms of websites, PR etc but then want the club to take a backward step and introduce standing/ drinking again.

How you can compare trips to cinema and meals out to supporting a football club, nope, completely different things in my opinion, and the idea of wanting wee gifts ??

If we were way out of line in terms of price with other clubs then I d see the complaint, £16 I paid for me and my son at Cowdenbeath on monday, an extra £6 it would have been for another child. Thats £7 more than McD for adult and two kids.

Maybe its me, maybe I m out of touch with what younger folk want, I go to sit and watch ( sometimes even enjoy ) a football match. Sometimes its rubbish, sometimes its fantastic. Our crowd is what it is, we re just not going to get the big numbers, people are too pampered now and want different things.

Go to your rugby, enjoy the cinema by all means but I m sorry I m just not going to understand your thinking.

[Cleveland-Saint]

Dont get to many games, a few each year now, but even as I get older, I miss the atmosphere of old, even days when things were getting a little hairy! It's part of what got me hooked at a young age being taken to Muirton park. The standing, angry old men shouting, the singing, the small rope separating us from hearts fans... didnt always get what was going on around me, but it was like a drug. The excitement I remember building up to each game, home and away was just a swell that could bairly be contained. Its stayed in me all these years, and Ill always support, thick or thin. The question at hand to me is, do the youngsters or even fair weather/possible new fans feel that today? Maybe Muirton was pretty sh*t and my memories exaggerated with age, but I don't think so, something got to me and I'm not sure its as strong now.

I really think we shouldn't underestimate the impact of a few hundred rowdy fans singing in a group, on the youngsters coming to their first game. Standing was always a critical part of what created that environment where the lads could congregate in one area. Even being too young to jump into that, just watching and hearing it was a big part of the day out, and even when some folk behaved badly, after or during the game, it became a big talking point back at school and memorable.

Do youngsters going to their first game today at saints feel that excitement? Would they feel it at Celtic Park, Murryfield? Are there just more exciting things to do now, in the warm home playing virtual reality video games and x-box etc....

If you want to have a true discussion, you almost need to split the hard core support, who are hooked (many like me from the old days), with the new market of youngsters, their parents, people moving to perth from other areas. They want to be entertained or feel something and to me atmosphere is/was everything that got made me a saint for life. Sometimes we could barely see the game ffs, it certainly wasn't always the football !! I wonder if some of the hardcore fans here take a look back to their first ever games and ask what was it that made them saints, if they could see the same attributes today.....

I will say one thing, fuk VFM if you really get the right ingredients, a saints game was never even discussed or compared with anything else, but you need to get the fans hooked first. If you don't it will always be a dwindling core/aging support with a bunch of fair weather fans who come out for the big day one very few months.

I don't think Perth is any different from other scottish towns, I just think McDiarmid Park, although a nice wee stadium, is lacking the ingredients needed to hook the new fish swimming through it. Dismissing concepts like the ultras (or whatever you call it), is digging our grave imo, many other european football leagues get it, focus on the teenage lads, get them hooked your future is secured.

[HOODLUM65]

The cinema costs about £7 for two hours.

Thats the best place to be Gort, especially when Dundee are at home.

[Strawman]

Agree with what you say Texas, we cant turn the clock back though. Your right in that it was the buzz round football back then that I got hooked on. When we went to school on monday it was the trouble and fights that were discussed much more than the football.

Times change though and people seem to want to have it both ways, they want the modern facilities and to be allowed to stand/drink etc You did nt get a website telling you where to go and what to do back in them days either.

I think those daus are gone, society and what is acceptable has changed, the club don t and shouldnt want anything thats going to cause them trouble around the ground.

Think we re also guilty of looking back through rose coloured spectacles. For as much as we maybe enjoyed it at the time, hoe many older people, woman, families with children went to games. Would they have stayed if they did or would they have been put off.

Much as I enjoyed the eighties I wonder just how many other people were lost to the game during that time as well

[rik2304]

I have to admit to being confused as to what it is people want.

As far as I can see communication from the club has never been better. The Facebook page is quite a new thing as is updates on Twitter.

When I started watching Saints in the 80 s there was no such things as WearePerth, Websites, etc your news came from the Programme, PA and the infrequent but brilliant Wendywho. Somehow people still made it to games though.

It seems that nowadays we want to be spoon fed and people are looking for ways to justify why they dont support their team anymore.

What really confuses me are the folks that want everything as modern as can be in terms of websites, PR etc but then want the club to take a backward step and introduce standing/ drinking again.

How you can compare trips to cinema and meals out to supporting a football club, nope, completely different things in my opinion, and the idea of wanting wee gifts ??

If we were way out of line in terms of price with other clubs then I d see the complaint, £16 I paid for me and my son at Cowdenbeath on monday, an extra £6 it would have been for another child. Thats £7 more than McD for adult and two kids.

Maybe its me, maybe I m out of touch with what younger folk want, I go to sit and watch ( sometimes even enjoy ) a football match. Sometimes its rubbish, sometimes its fantastic. Our crowd is what it is, we re just not going to get the big numbers, people are too pampered now and want different things.

Go to your rugby, enjoy the cinema by all means but I m sorry I m just not going to understand your thinking.

Ah, another cut my veins and I bleed blue, crawl over broken glass to get to McD Saintie. Unlike the rest of us, the prawn sandwich brigade.

The point folk are trying to make is that many people will naturally go to the OS for information and its not up to scratch. Get the basics right first. Not everybody knows about Facebook or Twitter. But a website is easy to get at etc.

I dont want wee gifts from Saints, the point I was making was that the SRU really attempt to make an impression on fans that will be remembered. Football fans are generally just left to it.

[St. Paddy]

On the point you make about "more of an occasion" What exactly would make it that?? And finally, what would make it acceptable in a VFM sense ???

In my (rambling) post, I alluded to a fantasy day at the football (and I think that is the issue, day!) Where a decent offering of entertainment and food is available.

At the moment it feels a bit Ryanair. Yes it does what it says it will for the entrance fee. You pay your money, sit down, shut up, and leave.

I know that the muirton suite offers a beer and stovies pre match, but the only time I went in it was overcrowded and understaffed. There is plenty room under the stands to provide an expanded offering with quicker service, better food, entertainment (sky sports, a local band, a lovely ladies contest... just thinking outside the box)

And if the club needs volunteers to expand or renovate facilities? Sure, it's been done before.

People to man a bar for three hours to get free entry? I am sure they could get names fairly quickly.

Hell, I could set up a burgers and chicken bar if I was asked, but someone would have to run day to day.

These are just a couple of suggestions.

Practical, do able, and all offering revenue to the club at low cost base, and enhancing the match experience for those attending.

I fly Ryanair because they get me to Scotland, not because I like Ryanair.

[St. Paddy]

As far as I can see, there are two entities here. St Johnstone Ltd. and st johnstone football club.

Ltd are the stadium, player registration, wage etc. The whole profit and loss thing.

The club is us. The fans, the history. The emotive bit.

I think the Ltd side are doing a very good job at what they do. A very good squad playing some nice football. An ok stadium that presently does not meet its requirements (to big, costly to run and on the outskirts)

Due to circumstances beyond their control, they are losing money. This is down to the economy, not spl Armageddon...

The ltd side have listened to the fans. The kids gate was mooted on here, and is a fantastic offering.

But there it stops. There is no real connectivity with us, the club.

Fair enough they use facebook & Twitter to provide info, but as far as I can see this is info about the ltd side. Match on, match off, kick off time, today's team is... unprecedented amounts of info, and only right it should be published there.

But I will bet this is only accessed by those already going to matches or with season tickets. Not based on anything, just my gut feeling.

This is where we the club, the supporters need to step up.

How many folk on here have kids at school? Why not contact the school and see if squad representatives could be invited in for a day? Can flyers be sent home in schoolbags or homework jotters detailing the Ormond stand deal?

Supporters clubs. All well and good as a place to meet pre match, but other than the eses game, I haven't seen a concerted effort to become ingrained in the consciousness of the rest of Perth and Perthshire. I am not criticising, just asking if something can be done?

Last point. (Whole unsubstantiated statistic....)

During a recession, a business that does not advertise is 200 times more likely to cease trading than a company who pays for advertising...

The deals and prices on offer are very good, especially for families, but if no one knows about them, what's the point. It broke my heart to see such a sparsely populated Ormond last week.

What can you do to help your club?

[St. Paddy]

Sorry for double post, can it be deleted?

[rik2304]

Can flyers be sent home in schoolbags or homework jotters detailing the Ormond stand deal?

They definately do this at my kids school. Dunno about other schools though. They also give out vouchers when a Birthday Party has been held at McD.

[slf]

Dont get to many games, a few each year now, but even as I get older, I miss the atmosphere of old, even days when things were getting a little hairy! It's part of what got me hooked at a young age being taken to Muirton park. The standing, angry old men shouting, the singing, the small rope separating us from hearts fans... didnt always get what was going on around me, but it was like a drug. The excitement I remember building up to each game, home and away was just a swell that could bairly be contained. Its stayed in me all these years, and Ill always support, thick or thin. The question at hand to me is, do the youngsters or even fair weather/possible new fans feel that today? Maybe Muirton was pretty sh*t and my memories exaggerated with age, but I don't think so, something got to me and I'm not sure its as strong now.

I really think we shouldn't underestimate the impact of a few hundred rowdy fans singing in a group, on the youngsters coming to their first game. Standing was always a critical part of what created that environment where the lads could congregate in one area. Even being too young to jump into that, just watching and hearing it was a big part of the day out, and even when some folk behaved badly, after or during the game, it became a big talking point back at school and memorable.

Do youngsters going to their first game today at saints feel that excitement? Would they feel it at Celtic Park, Murryfield? Are there just more exciting things to do now, in the warm home playing virtual reality video games and x-box etc....

If you want to have a true discussion, you almost need to split the hard core support, who are hooked (many like me from the old days), with the new market of youngsters, their parents, people moving to perth from other areas. They want to be entertained or feel something and to me atmosphere is/was everything that got made me a saint for life. Sometimes we could barely see the game ffs, it certainly wasn't always the football !! I wonder if some of the hardcore fans here take a look back to their first ever games and ask what was it that made them saints, if they could see the same attributes today.....

I will say one thing, fuk VFM if you really get the right ingredients, a saints game was never even discussed or compared with anything else, but you need to get the fans hooked first. If you don't it will always be a dwindling core/aging support with a bunch of fair weather fans who come out for the big day one very few months.

I don't think Perth is any different from other scottish towns, I just think McDiarmid Park, although a nice wee stadium, is lacking the ingredients needed to hook the new fish swimming through it. Dismissing concepts like the ultras (or whatever you call it), is digging our grave imo, many other european football leagues get it, focus on the teenage lads, get them hooked your future is secured.

i agree chief .for me ye have said what needs to be said .just goes tae show ye haven't lost that muirton park terraccing feeling.braw

[St. Paddy]

Lowering the price to league of Ireland levels would be financial suicide and would never be an option.

Not a huge disparity by the way. I pay more to bring the young lad to a game here than it costs to bring him in the Ormond.

[Born2Bru]

I've banged on about this in the past, but in our first Premier season in 1990, a ticket to the East Stand cost £7, adjusting for inflation. So it's tripled in price in real terms.

You must have a better different memory from me as I don't remember a ticket to the East Stand ever costing £4.

[Cleveland-Saint]

Strawman - I think you can have it both ways, if you take a look at some other european set-ups, where they have a blend of loud/passionate rowdys on terraces (well managed) with nice seating areas for kids and families, I think you can get the right blend that would see a better environment for growth. If others can cater to both markets, why can't we?

And I'm not saying we go back to brawling in the carparks here, but you can bring a lot of excitment between rival fans without it turning into a riot.