Crowd At Home

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

......................and play at that level, arfw, in the nether regions of Scottish football? Follow your team in the SPL and hope we establish ourselves there.

Can't get my breath!!

Its the circle of football for a saints fan . We are not a big enough club , with big enough fan base to always compete with celtic , aberdeen etc . We will be back in lower divisions and maybe part time sooner or later .

Enjoy it while we are a top spl team , making it into europe etc because with crowds below 3000 we cannot sustain the position we are in .

[Southpaw]

I don't think the club help themselves, letting stewards treat people like criminals

I honestly can't believe people make a decision on whether to go to the football based on the quality of stewarding.

[bobby kemp]

Said it before £10 for adults £5 for kids is the most we should be paying . We will end up part time sooner or later . Saints are losing loads of money and this will be the only outcome eventually . Cut cloth and downsize to other clubs our size like partick , airdrie and ayr .

We battle to get into and stay in the top league and you want us back in the dark bad days in the lower leagues ! ! nice one.

Edited December 16, 2012 by bobby kemp

[Cagey]

I have detected a lot of apathy ,even from the diehard Saints fans recently. I don`t know the reason for it. This site even shows it.There are a lot fewer guys posting on it now for some reason.

Televised football has a lot to do with it I think. Some of the televised games outside the big 3 in England are attracting poor crowds.

[Calypso Kid]

Saints board were expecting nearly 5000 today, we are losing money at an incredible rate the now, that is a huge worry.

This is the Dunfermline approach. I can't believe they expected 5k, it's a ridiculous number, given the circumstances.

It's a great scheme the club has going, I'm glad they got the word out on the radio yesterday but I still have doubts about whether it's been promoted enough locally.

[Radford 72]

Very sceptical that the board expected 5,000 fans yesterday. They gave the Hearts support the Main Stand, so clearly expecting less than 1,000 of them. Even if you say that many from Edinburgh, where were the extra 1,000 Saints fans going to come from?

I've said it before but are the club giving out the Ormond Stand vouchers like they were last season? You don't lose money from it as fans still have to pay their £15 to get in but it at least sows the seed. The family stand was a success last season but it's so disappointing to see it so empty, so often this campaign.

There is no doubt that a lot of folk are priced out of weekly football now and the sad fact is that Saints can't do much about that if we want to remain competitive but there must be folk in this area who aren't going for other reasons. They are the ones the club needs to target in the short-term, then further down the line, you can work towards making it more affordable for everyone.

[Center Half]

Saints board were expecting nearly 5000 today, we are losing money at an incredible rate the now, that is a huge worry.

Saintly no having a go at you but interested in your post,Therfore can i ask this question, I said as soon as i got in the ground yesterday that it would be a low crowd as the away end was not open.

this decision would have been taken by the board i would think on the expectant numbers from Hearts.(1000).I think 799 was announced at the game.

So if they were expecting 5000 on traditionaly the poorest attendance day according to past records. that would have meant 4000 saints fans would have to go to the game. I do not think we have acheived that figure for a long time now.

Probably 1000 saints fans missing yesterday though and well 2500 hearts fans from a few years back.

Also a quick look at the other crowds around the SPL and i would suggest probably all down around the same mark except Ross CountyV Dundee heard Dundee were taking a few up there so mabey that held their gate.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Center Half

[rik2304]

They are still handing out the vouchers to schools my son got one recently and the kids in general were really up for it. Don't know how regular this is or what the strategy is. It probably happens twice a season at my kids school.

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

We battle to get into and stay in the top league and you want us back in the dark bad days in the lower leagues :shock:/> ! ! nice one. :roll:/>

Dark bad days ? Most of the time i have supported saints we have been in the leagues which you describe as dark bad days . Sure its nice to be in the top six and europe but it was just as enjoyable for me going to away days in the old second division when we were part time. Why ? Because i was following my team . I would much rather we had a team to follow , than be in the situation of hearts and dunfermline who chased the dream of staying in the top division when it wasn't financially viable . Saints are very close to being up the creek without a paddle (2-3 years i was told by a director) . There is going to be big changes soon because we ARE living beyond our means and it cannot go on .

That may be negative and i am not wishing we were down the leagues but i am a realist and as long as there is a St Johnstone , i will (and have raised my kids to ) follow saints whichever division they are in.

[RandomGuy]

Walked past the Saints shop in town twice today, half an hour apart. And it was packed out the door with children and their parents. Right now the crowds aren't massive but the sheer amount of youngsters I see in Saints top and at Saints games now is higher than at any other time I've supported Saints. Surely this can only be a good thing for the future and in 5 or so years we'll be reaping the benefits

Heard there was more bother with an East Stand steward though?

[PerthSaints_1884]

Walked past the Saints shop in town twice today, half an hour apart. And it was packed out the door with children and their parents. Right now the crowds aren't massive but the sheer amount of youngsters I see in Saints top and at Saints games now is higher than at any other time I've supported Saints. Surely this can only be a good thing for the future and in 5 or so years we'll be reaping the benefits

Heard there was more bother with an East Stand steward though?

Couple of guys were escorted out. One was for singing 'Hearts are paedos', not sure about the other chap.

[RandomGuy]

Couple of guys were escorted out. One was for singing 'Hearts are paedos', not sure about the other chap.

Seriously? That's poor from the stewards. Just read it on Pie and Bovril about a beardy steward causing more problems

[Saintdunc]

Its the circle of football for a saints fan . We are not a big enough club , with big enough fan base to always compete with celtic , aberdeen etc . We will be back in lower divisions and maybe part time sooner or later .

Enjoy it while we are a top spl team , making it into europe etc because with crowds below 3000 we cannot sustain the position we are in .

Still can't get my breath!

[mad saints fan]

The only way we're going to get much bigger crowds is if we cut the price of admission by at least £10, and I don't mean for the odd game here and there. The thing is nobody in the league can afford to do this due to the costs of running a club, especially paying players wages. So realistically if clubs want to see more fans attending games then there is going to have to be some of sort of national salary cap. As much as it annoys me to say it, going to the football these days we don't get value for our money. Paying over £20 to watch teams that can't go past the first round of qualifying in European competition.

Take a look at the English Premiership. At Newcastle United, you can get into St James' Park, buy a programme, pie and bovril for the same price it costs us to get into our main stand. Their cheapest ticket is £15!!

Then you can also go to see Aston Villa, Fulham and Wigan for less than what we pay to get into McDiarmid Park, all £20 each for admission with their cheapest ticket.

It's even worse reading when you look at the Championship,

Birmingham - £21

Blackburn Rovers - £15

Bolton Wanderers - £22

Burnley - £22

Charlton - £20

Crystal Palace - £20

Huddersfield - £10

Hull - £20

Leeds United - £20

Leicester City - £15

Nottingham Forest - £20

It just isn't acceptable, the amount of money SPL clubs charge for supporters to get in the ground, our food is even more expensive than some Premiership and certainly a lot more than at most Championship grounds. We're being ripped off and the attendances at every ground around the country only goes to show that we, the public are totally aware of it.

[andy rhodes fancy watch]

Still can't get my breath!

Hopefully that lasts .

[THE LARK SAINT]

The only way we're going to get much bigger crowds is if we cut the price of admission by at least £10, and I don't mean for the odd game here and there. The thing is nobody in the league can afford to do this due to the costs of running a club, especially paying players wages. So realistically if clubs want to see more fans attending games then there is going to have to be some of sort of national salary cap. As much as it annoys me to say it, going to the football these days we don't get value for our money. Paying over £20 to watch teams that can't go past the first round of qualifying in European competition.

Take a look at the English Premiership. At Newcastle United, you can get into St James' Park, buy a programme, pie and bovril for the same price it costs us to get into our main stand. Their cheapest ticket is £15!!

Then you can also go to see Aston Villa, Fulham and Wigan for less than what we pay to get into McDiarmid Park, all £20 each for admission with their cheapest ticket.

It's even worse reading when you look at the Championship,

Birmingham - £21

Blackburn Rovers - £15

Bolton Wanderers - £22

Burnley - £22

Charlton - £20

Crystal Palace - £20

Huddersfield - £10

Hull - £20

Leeds United - £20

Leicester City - £15

Nottingham Forest - £20

It just isn't acceptable, the amount of money SPL clubs charge for supporters to get in the ground, our food is even more expensive than some Premiership and certainly a lot more than at most Championship grounds. We're being ripped off and the attendances at every ground around the country only goes to show that we, the public are totally aware of it.

It was £37 for me and the wee Lad at Coventry last week

Black pool v Blackburn was a sell out to i believe

Edited December 16, 2012 by THE LARK SAINT

[THE LARK SAINT]

The only way we're going to get much bigger crowds is if we cut the price of admission by at least £10, and I don't mean for the odd game here and there. The thing is nobody in the league can afford to do this due to the costs of running a club, especially paying players wages. So realistically if clubs want to see more fans attending games then there is going to have to be some of sort of national salary cap. As much as it annoys me to say it, going to the football these days we don't get value for our money. Paying over £20 to watch teams that can't go past the first round of qualifying in European competition.

Take a look at the English Premiership. At Newcastle United, you can get into St James' Park, buy a programme, pie and bovril for the same price it costs us to get into our main stand. Their cheapest ticket is £15!!

Then you can also go to see Aston Villa, Fulham and Wigan for less than what we pay to get into McDiarmid Park, all £20 each for admission with their cheapest ticket.

It's even worse reading when you look at the Championship,

Birmingham - £21

Blackburn Rovers - £15

Bolton Wanderers - £22

Burnley - £22

Charlton - £20

Crystal Palace - £20

Huddersfield - £10

Hull - £20

Leeds United - £20

Leicester City - £15

Nottingham Forest - £20

It just isn't acceptable, the amount of money SPL clubs charge for supporters to get in the ground, our food is even more expensive than some Premiership and certainly a lot more than at most Championship grounds. We're being ripped off and the attendances at every ground around the country only goes to show that we, the public are totally aware of it.

How many of those grounds do you get crappy behind the goals seats though?-Just asking

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

While I agree that it would be great if prices were reduced, I canne really get my head round this value for money thing. I support Saints. I dinnae go to watch them thinking the same way I do when I am buying a suit or a holiday. For me as a saints fan and a football fan, value for money has NOTHING to do with my attendance. I can fully understand that some people are being priced out of going to football because finances are very stretched but if you are looking for VFM , you would be perhaps be best served going shopping rather than going to a football match.

If we set VFM as a criteria for being a football fan, nobody would go. Especially if your team was shite. But for true football fans, that does not come into it. Would not matter if Saints were shite and were losing every game. I would still be there.

Football is too expensive but spare me the VFM rubbish. You are either a fan or your not. If you are but cannot afford to go then I have plenty of sympathy for you.

There are a few very good reasons which prevent people supporting their team.

Value for money though. That's phucking nonsense..

Edited December 16, 2012 by The ghost of Jim Morton

[slf]

everyone is saving there money for the big cup tie in darkest fife .

[slf]

everyone is saving there money for the big cup tie in darkest fife .

the cowdenbeath v stjohnstone is the one everyone is taliking about.so they should

[mad saints fan]

How many of those grounds do you get crappy behind the goals seats though?-Just asking

I wouldn't know Lark, it's a fair point to make as there are probably some stadiums which do have poor viewing but I can't think many of those I listed which have a poor view of the pitch. It still makes our prices look ridiculous though, look at the level of competition on offer and the quality of football compared to ours.

While I agree that it would be great if prices were reduced, I canne really get my head round this value for money thing. I support Saints. I dinnae go to watch them thinking the same way I do when I am buying a suit or a holiday. For me as a saints fan and a football fan, value for money has NOTHING to do with my attendance. I can fully understand that some people are being priced out of going to football because finances are very stretched but if you are looking for VFM , you would be perhaps be best served going shopping rather than going to a football match.

If we set VFM as a criteria for being a football fan, nobody would go. Especially if your team was shite. But for true football fans, that does not come into it. Would not matter if Saints were shite and were losing every game. I would still be there.

Football is too expensive but spare me the VFM rubbish. You are either a fan or your not. If you are but cannot afford to go then I have plenty of sympathy for you.

There are a few very good reasons which prevent people supporting their team.

Value for money though. That's phucking nonsense..

I respect your opinion Ghostie but look around the country, it shows that people like you who don't consider value for money when thinking about spending £20-30 or maybe even more on a football match, are obviously in the minority. People ARE spending their money but just not at football matches, they can make that money for a ticket or tickets stretch much further than 90mins on a Saturday afternooon. I am almost certain that if there were a survey done in town or across the country and if value was an option for people to select as a reason for not attending football, you would be surprised at how many people would select that option.

I've been a member on here for several years and I know you and many on here are part of what I would refer to as the die hard element of Saints fans, so it doesn't surprise me that you would attend Saints games no matter what. To say if you take value for your money into account before attending a football match, that you are not a true fan is downright ridiculous and insulting. You say if we set value for money as a criteria for being a football fan then nobody would go...next time you're in McDiarmid Park or any away ground, take a look around and think about how many people are missing and ask yourself why?

[Ginger Bakers rebel army]

The only way we're going to get much bigger crowds is if we cut the price of admission by at least £10, and I don't mean for the odd game here and there. The thing is nobody in the league can afford to do this due to the costs of running a club, especially paying players wages. So realistically if clubs want to see more fans attending games then there is going to have to be some of sort of national salary cap. As much as it annoys me to say it, going to the football these days we don't get value for our money. Paying over £20 to watch teams that can't go past the first round of qualifying in European competition.

Take a look at the English Premiership. At Newcastle United, you can get into St James' Park, buy a programme, pie and bovril for the same price it costs us to get into our main stand. Their cheapest ticket is £15!!

Then you can also go to see Aston Villa, Fulham and Wigan for less than what we pay to get into McDiarmid Park, all £20 each for admission with their cheapest ticket.

It's even worse reading when you look at the Championship,

Birmingham - £21

Blackburn Rovers - £15

Bolton Wanderers - £22

Burnley - £22

Charlton - £20

Crystal Palace - £20

Huddersfield - £10

Hull - £20

Leeds United - £20

Leicester City - £15

Nottingham Forest - £20

It just isn't acceptable, the amount of money SPL clubs charge for supporters to get in the ground, our food is even more expensive than some Premiership and certainly a lot more than at most Championship grounds. We're being ripped off and the attendances at every ground around the country only goes to show that we, the public are totally aware of it.

While the pricing is interesting, two things stand along side the basic price. The size of the average attendance and the TV revenue.

Some of these team get massive crowds and take more in gate money in 3 or 4 big games than we take all season.

As for the TV money, even in the Championship it is huge compared to the SPL.

IT would be good to compare revenue overall between the clubs MUFC down to see where we are in the UK. Dont know if that info is available but it would make interesting reading.

[Radford 72]

It would be good to compare revenue overall between the clubs MUFC down to see where we are in the UK. Dont know if that info is available but it would make interesting reading.

The two PWC reports since we returned to SPL (09/10 and 10/11) have had our turnover at £4 million. Selected figures from The Championship in England from 2010/11:

Leeds United - £33 million

Reading - £23 million

Ipswich - £17 million

Bristol City - £12 million

Watford - £11 million

Although the thread is about crowds, it has strayed into finances and it's actually maybe not all that doom and gloom. PWC have for years now recommended clubs spend no more than 60% of their turnover on wages. That would be £2.4 million for Saints, which would still be more than Inverness, St Mirren, Ross County and Dundee I'd imagine. The £300,000 we'd save on wages would plug both the losses we've made since returning to the SPL, although I can't remember what last season's was? Anyone? Simplistic maybe but the club are still in a position to benefit from years of prudence. Without banging the youth drum, the squad could be a good few lighter if we produced our own players, who you then have the added bonus of hopefully being able to sell on for a fee somewhere down the line.

[rik2304]

Not sure that value for money is the best way to put it. I think these days its about priorities when it comes to money. I dont know if Perth has been hit harder than anywhere else when it comes to the recession etc but I know that I have to pick the games I go to these days as I cant always justify the money.

Certainly we can get bigger crowds when there is an occasion such as the Euro game. It is obvious that we arent a big club but if we can keep on "over achieving" and fighting for europe and the top 6 then maybe the fans will come back again.

[The Neutral]

While the pricing is interesting, two things stand along side the basic price. The size of the average attendance and the TV revenue.

Some of these team get massive crowds and take more in gate money in 3 or 4 big games than we take all season.

As for the TV money, even in the Championship it is huge compared to the SPL.

IT would be good to compare revenue overall between the clubs MUFC down to see where we are in the UK. Dont know if that info is available but it would make interesting reading.

I don't know how much truth is in it but the TV money could apparantely allow some of the smaller clubs to play to empty stadia in the Premiership