lethamsaintee Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Point accepted, thanks, but my point was that folk seem to be queuing up to tell Saints how to spend the May money. It's been spent. There's three schools of thought. The first is those that believe we should pay our players 5 quid a week and that we are some absolute newt of a football club with not a penny. The second is those that believe we are too tight as a football club and should spend what we don't have. The third is somewhere in the middle. Those that see through all the nonsense of school of thought one but don't want us to become the next Rangers or Hearts or Livingston. The third lot are the ones who are right.......... templeofsaints, Kevin James Is On Stilts, Norsaint and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 We chased the Euro Dream again last season possibly to the detriment of these Three young players again, I Believe once safety is secured then we should have the young guys playing every game to the end of the season this then gives them playing time if they are to improve (make it at this level) then we should already know this I suppose we have next season to try this out again. I completely disagree with this. I don't want us to settle for safety and then play experimental line-ups. I want us to be as ambitious as possible and strive to finish as high up the league as possible, and of course I want us to "chase the Euro Dream" again. And I would strongly hope that Tommy Wright and the players want that too. We absolutely must play our strongest team in every game. If the young players want to play, then it's up to them to prove that they're part of that strongest team, just like Stevie May did. Last season with a few matches to go we had the ridiculous situation of people on here saying we should throw in the towel and play youngsters, even though we were only a point or two behind Dundee United. Fortunately, the manager had no intention of ever doing that, and that's why we finished fourth and got to qualify for Europe for the fourth year in a row. 541ntees, Ali91 and Dave Ferg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I hope we do - though I'm not sure we will. As an aside it was interesting to look back through an old Rothmans to see Paul Sturrock's use of youngsters in the late 1990s. An 18-year-old Danny Griffin and a 19-year-old Stuart McCluskey as regular centre backs! I suppose the loan market wasn't as established then, so to give players the chance, you really had to play them. Credit to Sturrock that we did: and it didn't do us any harm. As I remember it from the time, McCluskey only really played to cover for injuries. He was never Sturrock's first choice pick. Our regular partnership was Weir and Griffin. Sturrock did do really well at bringing in youngsters, of course - he brought in Griffin and even made him captain on occasion, along with giving chances to guys like Callum Davidson, Andy Whiteford, Charlie King and Kieran McAnespie. But we were a lower division club at that time. I don't think Sturrock was quite as keen to bring through young players after we won promotion. Our Premier League team under Sturrock was largely made up of experienced, reliable pros who did a solid job and got lots of 1-0 wins without really ever having a great deal of flair or pace - quite a lot like the situation we're in now, in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center Half Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Blue Haven :- I agree in principle with what you say as well, However for 2 weeks of Europe league competition we may have lost a chance to blood/enhance the young players we had on the books, who also may have been able to get us into the euro slot who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franco Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 You at it again if thats all you can do is moan moan why dont you do one sick of hearing it. What part of my post is moaning? Stop having such a happy clapper attitude to everything about saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
541ntees Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 As I remember it from the time, McCluskey only really played to cover for injuries. He was never Sturrock's first choice pick. Our regular partnership was Weir and Griffin. Sturrock did do really well at bringing in youngsters, of course - he brought in Griffin and even made him captain on occasion, along with giving chances to guys like Callum Davidson, Andy Whiteford, Charlie King and Kieran McAnespie. But we were a lower division club at that time. I don't think Sturrock was quite as keen to bring through young players after we won promotion. Our Premier League team under Sturrock was largely made up of experienced, reliable pros who did a solid job and got lots of 1-0 wins without really ever having a great deal of flair or pace - quite a lot like the situation we're in now, in fact. think fizzy can be added to the list too. remember one game against celtic our starting mf was brendan crozier and another youngster (although forced to due to injuries) , both played well though disappeared iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'd question the resigning of Caddis but not Wright. Playing devils advocate, did the resigning of Frazer mean TW didn't have total faith in the 2 new boys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixties saintee Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 What part of my post is moaning? Stop having such a happy clapper attitude to everything about saints. All your posts are slagging Saints players, i can and have critisised Saints just hate constant negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Playing devils advocate, did the resigning of Frazer mean TW didn't have total faith in the 2 new boys? Don't think so. It's just that FW still has plenty to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Last season with a few matches to go we had the ridiculous situation of people on here saying we should throw in the towel and play youngsters, even though we were only a point or two behind Dundee United. Fortunately, the manager had no intention of ever doing that, and that's why we finished fourth and got to qualify for Europe for the fourth year in a row. Agree - put only up to a point. First, I'll repeat we were lucky last season because other clubs lost key players, as much as the performances of our own team. (And that's not to downplay our achievements; I tell myself this as much to keep expectations in check this year). But even if we agree that the more experienced players did help us get that fourth place - I'll even generously brush aside Chris Kane's role - in retrospect (and I know this is easy) would we be in a better place now if we'd risked some younger players and lost fourth? I'm not worried about this season - we have the players to do ok. But long-term Saints will be in trouble unless (i) we continue to win cups every year or ( ii ) we produce saleable youngsters. Getting them out on loan is a start, but I fear that every time Tommy Wright is minded to buy in experience rather than play youngsters. Eventually we'll lose out both in terms of the value of the young players we produce, and our attractiveness to young players. I won't deny Tommy's approach has done well this far - but it has to hit us eventually unless we keep riding this wave of success. Are we ready for it? Edited July 25, 2015 by Brogan Jiangsu Sainty and gingermunkie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiangsu Sainty Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I agree with you Brogan, but I can see the other side of it too, in that we couldn't have known Europe would be so terrible this year, both the nightmare frae in both rounds and then not even getting to second round. We might have felt differently if it had been more like recent years. I still feel the young three (at the very least) should be featuring a lot more, although I expect Kane will this season anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brogan Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I agree with you Brogan, but I can see the other side of it too, in that we couldn't have known Europe would be so terrible this year, both the nightmare frae in both rounds and then not even getting to second round. We might have felt differently if it had been more like recent years. I still feel the young three (at the very least) should be featuring a lot more, although I expect Kane will this season anyway. Yes hindsight is easy - and I hope Blueheaven is right: if we keep qualifying for Europe my argument quite rightly will be exposed in all its shameful short-sightedness. Agree Kane will probably feature more (but is it because the management team's hand has to be finally forced - realistically how long can he persevere with MacLean in the current system when it's been obvious for months it isn't working?) Jiangsu Sainty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 For those worrying about the size of the squad I don't think you should as in Thomson and roger we have 2 kids who if needed could step up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE LARK SAINT Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 For those worrying about the size of the squad I don't think you should as in Thomson and roger we have 2 kids who if needed could step up to it.Thomson had me on the edge of my seat,real potential rammsteinally, StSerfSaint and mainstand 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mc Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Tbh Mainstand, after today I'd be tempted to start Thompson next week, don't think Tommy will, but he injected much needed urgency into the team today, thought Broony pressed and passed well too mainstand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethamsaintee Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Thomson had me on the edge of my seat,real potential He was excellent. Always looked ok in the 20s as well when I have seen him. mainstand and dunkeldneil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Center Half Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Agree that we as in (the management team) need to show our youngster a bit more confidence in their ability, I can honestly say that each preseason I think they are coming through then they disappear again. have/show them faith in their ability they have the gallous/confidence to give us a spark.. Rodgers/Caddis/Brown/Thompson all capable of playing IMO ( Dylan Easton also would fall into that bracket but seems to be nowhere now?). 55saint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Agree that we as in (the management team) need to show our youngster a bit more confidence in their ability, I can honestly say that each preseason I think they are coming through then they disappear again. have/show them faith in their ability they have the gallous/confidence to give us a spark.. Rodgers/Caddis/Brown/Thompson all capable of playing IMO ( Dylan Easton also would fall into that bracket but seems to be nowhere now?). I can understand Brown not authorising another signing. The pool we had out today plus D East on,Ando,Muzz Caddis & Lappin + all the guys out on loan must be the biggest outside Tic & Dons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mc Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 And Cuptie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cagey Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 And Cuptie! How could I forget him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott1884 Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 think fizzy can be added to the list too. remember one game against celtic our starting mf was brendan crozier and another youngster (although forced to due to injuries) , both played well though disappeared iirc I remember a game against Celtic when McCluskey & Griffin were the 2 centre backs & we only lost 1-0 at Celtic Park & both players got a great write-up in the press 541ntees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Agree - put only up to a point. First, I'll repeat we were lucky last season because other clubs lost key players, as much as the performances of our own team. (And that's not to downplay our achievements; I tell myself this as much to keep expectations in check this year). But even if we agree that the more experienced players did help us get that fourth place - I'll even generously brush aside Chris Kane's role - in retrospect (and I know this is easy) would we be in a better place now if we'd risked some younger players and lost fourth? I'm not worried about this season - we have the players to do ok. But long-term Saints will be in trouble unless (i) we continue to win cups every year or ( ii ) we produce saleable youngsters. Getting them out on loan is a start, but I fear that every time Tommy Wright is minded to buy in experience rather than play youngsters. Eventually we'll lose out both in terms of the value of the young players we produce, and our attractiveness to young players. I won't deny Tommy's approach has done well this far - but it has to hit us eventually unless we keep riding this wave of success. Are we ready for it? It wasn't only other teams that lost key players. We lost a 25 goal a season striker and were without Muzz for large spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franco Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I know an Elgin season ticket holder who said that if offered he wouldn't take Thompson back for this season. Said that he has pace and skill but nothing else, no end product at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I can understand Brown not authorising another signing. The pool we had out today plus D East on,Ando,Muzz Caddis & Lappin + all the guys out on loan must be the biggest outside Tic & Dons. Our first team squad is about 23 players, once you ignore those away on loan and include Craig Thomson. Thats the perfect size pretty much, although we were initially planning to take out Thomson from that and add a more experienced winger. Its about the 4th/5th/6th biggest squad in the league depending on what players you think should be included. And even then its only one or two above those in the "bottom six". Its certainly not bloated anyway, as the amount of youth players still at the club is smaller than most clubs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
541ntees Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I know an Elgin season ticket holder who said that if offered he wouldn't take Thompson back for this season. Said that he has pace and skill but nothing else, no end product at all. leicester fans said the same of kane lethamsaintee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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