St Johnstone vs Dundee - 2/9/23

[weesainty]

2 minutes ago, Cagey said:

If I never see Costello's , Smith or Turner Cooke again I will be a happy man. Send them back they are no better than our youths.

Turner Cooke non existing.

Smith never put a tackle in and kept passing back.

Costelloe kept falling over and couldn't beat his man.

Got to agree at one point thought Matty smith was playing in defence was playing so deep all 3 never had a good game 

[jjohndb]

come on saints!

[MrBored]

By God that was awful for 70 odd mins. Costello.....lets just hope that was one poor game. Should have come off at half-time.

We only started to look like we might do something when Kane came on and when he had a wee bit support in Jephcott. 

The new left back looked scared to go over the half way line for most of the game and while Smith  & Phillips did try to look for the ball off the centre backs...all they did was pass backwards, neither of them thought to take the ball in the half turn to be ready to make a forward pass. We probably had a decent amount of possession but did very little.

I wonder if Maclean will come out and hold his hands up for the wrong line up that should have been changed earlier than it was.

Dundee must be gutted...mind you, had they not time wasted so much we wouldn't have had the chance to equalise.

[mike_gain]

Massive difference when Kane came on. May just doesn't want to play as a striker.

Phillips was excellent, dig in when needed but tried to keep the ball moving forward.

New youngsters looked a little out of their depth. Robinson was ok at left back though.

Max quite simply isn't a right winger/midfielder but fair play, took his goals well.

Carey is the most frustrating player we have. Bags of skill but deary me always drops deep bringing his defender in. Just slows everything up the left.

Absolutely dreadful 70 minutes or so though. We should listen the Dundee fans, we are going down playing like this....they have plenty experience watching a relegation squad.

[blueheaven]

Absolutely incredible result in the end and hats off to Max for grabbing those goals, but so many red flags in that performance.

People are singling out players on here (ridiculously, in my opinion - a lot of these guys are young, inexperienced and new here and they need given a fair chance), but surely the big problem is the way we set up to play that game. May up front on his own doesn't work. It didn't work last season, or the season before that, and it's not working now. I understand doing it at Celtic Park or Ibrox, but if we can't be braver and play two up front when we're at home against the newly promoted team, then when can we?

We play way too close to our own goal, we had way too many players sitting behind the ball in central midfield, and we had zero support for May who has gone back to spending all his time miles away from the opposition goal. Personally I felt we should have sacrificed one of Smith/Phillips/Turner-Cooke from that line-up and put Kane up front alongside May. If not starting that way, at the very least we could have made that change when it became obvious our shape wasn't working.

I like Smith. He has a bit of dig in him and he's eager to play the ball forwards. But most of the time there was no one to play it forward to. The whole team needs to shift higher up the park and actually find a way to put pressure on teams or we're always going to struggle.

It's a bit of a worry for me that we've signed 11 players over the summer but still look really unsure of how to attack and haven't brought in a big, powerful, out-and-out centre-forward. Bakayoko at Dundee looked to me like exactly the sort of player we should have been targeting as a priority.

I seriously hope Macca is going to spend the next two weeks working hard on finding a plan for this team to properly attack and score goals, because we badly need that.

[Havana Saint]

We were absolutely rotten for the majority of that game. Amazing that we took a point. 

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, blueheaven said:

Absolutely incredible result in the end and hats off to Max for grabbing those goals, but so many red flags in that performance.

People are singling out players on here (ridiculously, in my opinion - a lot of these guys are young, inexperienced and new here and they need given a fair chance), but surely the big problem is the way we set up to play that game. May up front on his own doesn't work. It didn't work last season, or the season before that, and it's not working now. I understand doing it at Celtic Park or Ibrox, but if we can't be braver and play two up front when we're at home against the newly promoted team, then when can we?

We play way too close to our own goal, we had way too many players sitting behind the ball in central midfield, and we had zero support for May who has gone back to spending all his time miles away from the opposition goal. Personally I felt we should have sacrificed one of Smith/Phillips/Turner-Cooke from that line-up and put Kane up front alongside May. If not starting that way, at the very least we could have made that change when it became obvious our shape wasn't working.

I like Smith. He has a bit of dig in him and he's eager to play the ball forwards. But most of the time there was no one to play it forward to. The whole team needs to shift higher up the park and actually find a way to put pressure on teams or we're always going to struggle.

It's a bit of a worry for me that we've signed 11 players over the summer but still look really unsure of how to attack and haven't brought in a big, powerful, out-and-out centre-forward. Bakayoko at Dundee looked to me like exactly the sort of player we should have been targeting as a priority.

I seriously hope Macca is going to spend the next two weeks working hard on finding a plan for this team to properly attack and score goals, because we badly need that.

You must have been watching a different Smith from me . As I saw it , never put a tackle in and passed back every time although it must have been tactics as they all did it. So much for Maccas attacking football ,apart from last 20 mins..

A goal to draw in 96th min feels like a win and stopped us going into the international break on a downer.

Macca has 2 weeks to try and sorts things. Maybe ask McGowan , Crawford and Booth to stay.

[Two Cups 2021]

2 hours ago, MrBored said:

By God that was awful for 70 odd mins. Costello.....lets just hope that was one poor game. Should have come off at half-time.

We only started to look like we might do something when Kane came on and when he had a wee bit support in Jephcott. 

The new left back looked scared to go over the half way line for most of the game and while Smith  & Phillips did try to look for the ball off the centre backs...all they did was pass backwards, neither of them thought to take the ball in the half turn to be ready to make a forward pass. We probably had a decent amount of possession but did very little.

I wonder if Maclean will come out and hold his hands up for the wrong line up that should have been changed earlier than it was.

Dundee must be gutted...mind you, had they not time wasted so much we wouldn't have had the chance to equalise.

Spot on.

However let's hope these guys quickly improve their performances .

[aagb1884]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Bakayoko at Dundee looked to me like exactly the sort of player we should have been targeting as a priority.

Fairly sure we were in for him but couldn't afford to cover his wages. 

[aagb1884]

Anyway, last two seasons we would have lost that game.

[Cagey]

Tony Docherty has built a team from scratch of athletic ,strong players playing at speed with pass and go football while Macca has built a team of other teams kids while loaning ours out. Was surprised that Max and Ballantyne are still here.

The Ballantyne of last season was miles better than Smith and Max should be first choice even if it is right of a front 3.

Phillips is better further forward and is not a holding midfielder especially with Smith beside him as we seemed to have 2 holding midfielders yesterday. Fecked if I know what the tactics were today.

Dundee certainly aren't going to be the cannon fodder we thought they would be.

[Indicator]

41 minutes ago, Two Cups 2021 said:

Spot on.

However let's hope these guys quickly improve their performances .

Clearly the step-up in level from the EFL has caught them out. They'll be ok once they get up to speed. 😏

[tucker]

Need to play with two up front much better that way good old 442

[Havana Saint]

3 hours ago, Cagey said:

You must have been watching a different Smith from me . As I saw it , never put a tackle in and passed back every time although it must have been tactics as they all did it. So much for Maccas attacking football ,apart from last 20 mins..

A goal to draw in 96th min feels like a win and stopped us going into the international break on a downer.

Macca has 2 weeks to try and sorts things. Maybe ask McGowan , Crawford and Booth to stay.

Definitely not Crawford.

 

We were atrocious for most of the game. Stevie May was nowhere to be seen today. MIA.

 

Plenty to work on. Left back looks equally atrocious as Gallagher, but bizarrely I think we might stay up..Kane and Maxi were good (not brilliant) when they came on.

 

COYS

 

[blueheaven]

3 hours ago, Cagey said:

You must have been watching a different Smith from me . As I saw it , never put a tackle in and passed back every time although it must have been tactics as they all did it. So much for Maccas attacking football ,apart from last 20 mins..

Who are you expecting him to pass it forward to? Countless times he got the ball and looked up to make the forward pass but there was no one there. That's why our play constantly goes backwards and sideways. No one moves off the ball, no one's making any runs forward, and May is trying to cover every blade of grass but it just means he's never where he needs to be.

But I agree with you about "Macca's attacking football". He's talked a brilliant game so far but we need to start to see that filtering through to the pitch. So far we look no more likely to score goals than we did under Davidson, and of course that needs to change.

[Setting Son]

6 hours ago, Bruno Strasser said:

McPherson an improvement on Smith and Kane needs to start. Turner Cooke did nothing

Just young laddies , Max has been out at clubs learning his trade like some of these lads . 
 Game only changed when we went 2 up top 

[Setting Son]

23 minutes ago, Havana Saint said:

Definitely not Crawford.

 

We were atrocious for most of the game. Stevie May was nowhere to be seen today. MIA.

 

Plenty to work on. Left back looks equally atrocious as Gallagher, but bizarrely I think we might stay up..Kane and Maxi were good (not brilliant) when they came on.

 

COYS

 

Always works with May as the lone striker ——-“

[SlickDT]

Great ending to a game that we had no right to get anything from.

Trying not to be too harsh on young lads with lots to learn, but some of them already look way off what we need. Gallagher or fit Booth are well ahead of the new lad at left back. I hope the new boy from Charlton is an upgrade for the right-wing as well or Drey is back very soon.

After about 20 minutes it was clear to me that it was time to simplify things and change to a 4-4-2. That formation and plan was woeful at creating attacking play.

Both the full-backs and wingers seemed to be very wide and tight to the line, but both in deeper positions. It made any chance of link up play impossible. There was no chemistry at all down either side. With both full-backs offering very little moving forward.

The two deeper midfielders both seemed inclined to come deep, often at the same time, leaving less options for a forward pass when they did turn. Smith is an international player, but at times it seemed like he couldn't see that by simply moving 5 yards forward into space, that he would give Phillips a much easier pass to build on.

Mitov had clearly been told to try to play through the defence. The left-back clearly didn't want the ball.very often, Considine is well Considine and I don't see much difference between McClelland's ability to play the ball out and Gordon's.

The whole team was sloppy on the ball and considering we had 3 in the middle of the park, it seemed to be a difficulty for them to keep possession and move forward.

I think with game time Turner Cooke could be a decent player, but he had limited effect today.

That performance was the type of performance a very poor 12th place team in this league puts up. A mix of us changing to two up top and Dundee removing there two most effective attacking players on the day got us a point in the end.

I should come away delighted with the result, but I left with a very strong feeling that we ain't escaping the drop this time.

[Saintdunc]

I'll take a point and an ugly draw any day of the week, especially yesterday considering who the opposition were. That said, many on here, are almost saying our performance made their eyes bleed. 

Max scored, twice, which got us off the mark and the other bonus is that Dundee must have left Perth wondering how that happened. 

Quite why we didn't push the boat out, during the window, for a striker is a big issue, as historically, for quite a number of seasons, the barn door has been pretty safe. 

We can, surely, only get better! 

 

[Bruno Strasser]

We seem to have gone from one extreme to another. Squad full of aging pros to one full of inexperienced youngsters. 

[Cagey]

10 hours ago, Havana Saint said:

Definitely not Crawford.

 

We were atrocious for most of the game. Stevie May was nowhere to be seen today. MIA.

 

Plenty to work on. Left back looks equally atrocious as Gallagher, but bizarrely I think we might stay up..Kane and Maxi were good (not brilliant) when they came on.

 

COYS

 

I don't know how long he is going to persist with May as lone striker.

The left back wasn't the worst of the new signings but it wasn't until the last 10 mins that he ventured out of his own half and overlapped with Carey which resulted in both goals. That was maybe instructions rather than his reluctance, although maybe due to Dundee subs.

Tiffany was giving Brown a hard time with his pace but he got no help from Costelloe .

[The Real Saints]

I feel I’ve maybe missed something or already forgotten due to my old age, but I’ve seen a few overly critical comments about Gallacher recently and I’m not sure why? My recollection is that he’s pretty raw but was one of our better performers until getting injured.

[Gas Monkey]

I’m yet to see any evidence that there is a team in this league worse than us. I was optimistic before the game but now feel that we have replaced our own youngsters who weren’t good enough yet with someone else’s youngsters who are not good enough yet. Dundee have gone out and signed exactly the type of players we have been crying out for. Things will improve I’m sure but will this be good enough? 

[aagb1884]

Dundee got promoted and are on the up. They’re able to sign players who can go into and improve the first team. Bluntly we cannot do this, with our budget every signing is a gamble. Years of mismanagement coming home to roost. Game yesterday is both cause for pessimism, because we were obviously crap, but also optimism because we actually changed formation and salvaged a draw. That simply wouldn’t have happened in the past two seasons. On the other hand no one else looks worse than us unless Hibs hire Mark McGhee

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, Bruno Strasser said:

We seem to have gone from one extreme to another. Squad full of aging pros to one full of inexperienced youngsters. 

Gordon, Considine, Brown, MacPherson, Wright, Carey, Kane, Clark, and May are all 24yo+ with 100+ senior appearances.

Mitov, Smith and Jephcott are experienced and over 23 too.

These ones dont have any excuse about lack of experience and should be stepping up to help those who arent experienced.