St Johnstone vs Dundee - 2/9/23

[blueheaven]

I think when you look at how Bakayoko played for them yesterday, he was always in the centre-forward position, and the Dundee players knew he'd always be there, and that enabled them to move the ball forward to him quickly. We saw the same thing last season with Van Veen at Motherwell. We look ponderous by comparison because everyone's behind the ball and May's too busy tracking back or chasing out to the wings, so there's no option but to play the ball sideways or backwards. That always allows our opponents to re-group and outnumber us when we're trying to attack.

I listened to a podcast interview with Mark Hateley a few weeks ago and he was talking about how his early British coaches always wanted him to run all over the place like a headless chicken, but when he moved to AC Milan the coach was appalled and told him he had to always stay between the lines of the 18-yard box. He was told that when he runs out to tackle the full-back or runs all over the pitch, it stops everyone else in the team from doing their jobs properly and taking up the right positions. Immediately made me think of the way we have Stevie May playing and how much we struggle to get the ball forwards. Surely that's not a massively difficult thing to fix, though?

Interesting dilemma for Macca now because we have Rangers next and you'd think that's probably one of the games where it makes more sense to have one player up front. Maybe Kane starts that one ahead of May? I wouldn't even be against seeing Kane start as the centre-forward and May drop back into the role we've had Turner-Cooke playing in.

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, The Real Saints said:

I feel I’ve maybe missed something or already forgotten due to my old age, but I’ve seen a few overly critical comments about Gallacher recently and I’m not sure why? My recollection is that he’s pretty raw but was one of our better performers until getting injured.

Ditto, certainly no worse than Robinson and prob better going forward.

[Cagey]

Have to thank Willie Collum for the extra one minute for time wasting. Apparently Docherty heard the 4th official saying 5 mins is up.

Also thought he had a good game. Sometimes he books everyone in sight and sometimes like yesterday only booking bad challenges and let game flow.

[Cagey]

How can Dundee pick up loanees like Beck and Bakayoko and we can't.

[aagb1884]

26 minutes ago, Cagey said:

How can Dundee pick up loanees like Beck and Bakayoko and we can't.

Money

[pezza70]

Any word on when Clark maybe back.

I thought he and May started to show a nice combo last season

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, aagb1884 said:

Money

Do you think Dundee will be paying Fleetwood and Liverpool more for their loanees than we are paying for ours. Don't think so. I think it's how you find them.

[aagb1884]

Just now, Cagey said:

Do you think Dundee will be paying Fleetwood and Liverpool more for their loanees than we are paying for ours. Don't think so. I think it's how you find them.

Yes, I absolutely do think that. I'd heard that we lost out on a player to Dundee and then a few days later they announced Bakayoko. We have found players, we just have **** all money after years of mismanagement.

We cannot compete financially with Dunfermline, let alone Dundee.

[blueheaven]

3 minutes ago, aagb1884 said:

Yes, I absolutely do think that. I'd heard that we lost out on a player to Dundee and then a few days later they announced Bakayoko. We have found players, we just have **** all money after years of mismanagement.

We cannot compete financially with Dunfermline, let alone Dundee.

I'm not convinced that's accurate. We have the money to sign these kind of guys if we really want to. We've just chosen to use the budget in different ways. Macca has said right from the start that a big striker in the Bakayoko mould hasn't been his priority. It could easily have been the case that if we'd signed him, we wouldn't have been able to strengthen in other areas, so the manager decided it wasn't worth it.

Maybe worth noting that Bakayoko is older than Jephcott, came from a lower ranked team than Jephcott, and his scoring rate over the last few years is no better than Jephcott's. And we've invested in giving Jephcott a two-year deal, whereas Dundee have only got Bakayoko on loan. There's no way guys like Jephcott, Mitov and Smith will have come to us for peanuts.

[blueheaven]

2 hours ago, Cagey said:

How can Dundee pick up loanees like Beck and Bakayoko and we can't.

I find it incredible how quickly you've decided to write off our players who have barely played for us yet. You're saying we can't compete with Dundee for loanees but have we not just picked up one of Newcastle's most highly rated youngsters on loan? 

Beck and Bakayoko both joined Dundee over a month ago and have had time to bed into the Dundee team. Yesterday was Bakayoko's first goal for them so he's not exactly been on fire (in fact I've just noticed he didn't even get credited with yesterday's goal, so he still hasn't scored for them). And let's not forget that these Dundee guys couldn't actually beat us, despite how rotten we were for almost the whole game.

You've already decided Robinson's no better than Gallacher, Smith's no better than Ballantyne, Max is apparently better than everyone (even though up until yesterday he'd done very little for us in the opportunities he's been given), and Smith, Costelloe and Turner-Cooke should all never play for us again. 

Do you not think it's reasonable to suggest that some of these guys might need a little bit of time to settle in and show what they can do?

Have you forgotten why we had to go out and sign these players from other clubs, or would you actually be happy with us playing the rest of the season with the team that failed in the League Cup and got walloped by Stirling Albion?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah Mitov, Smith and Jephcott as said wont be cheap, but theyre permanent signings. I doubt we're willing to pay big money for loanees, especially for a striker when we've already got 4 first team striker wages going out every week. You could say Bakayoko is a better fit for what we needed than Jephcott, but youd likely be basing it on around 3 games. Bakayoko was class a few years ago but since then has effectively been Theo Bair in being a big guy whos totally ineffective. 

Beck was probably already Dundee by the time it fully sunk in that Booth/Gallacher were going to be unreliable again and we'd need a left back who could actually stay fit.

[Broggy Man]

Wow just wow meltdown time on here smith was unlucky to get hauled off like others say forward passing options were few Taylor Cooke did ok got into the box and on another day could have scored Costello I though had a tough time of it did work for him but Carey I’m sorry didn’t look interested which seems to be a theme for him 

[Indicator]

On 9/2/2023 at 3:47 PM, St. Paddy said:

Who's this, that you speak off? 

Well Kucheryavyi of course.

[Linky]

We were really really awful, and the result masks that fact. We should've been 3-0 down instead. I think there are some good players there, but it needs time to come together. Kane made a huge difference, and if he's fit can play well with Jephcott. These two need to play together for games like this that are winnable. What was disturbing was the basic lack of concentration: players would go to trap the ball and it would roll out, wayward passes, losing the ball so so easily.

[Smarmy Arab]

To state the bleeding obvious....it's gonna be a long hard season, for a number of clubs, but take heart Saints are not the only team who look fragile, there are 7/8 others in the mix.  Dundee will be seek after yesterday, 3 points in Perth after 3 from sjambok would have meant an excellent start, not so now.  
 

Pity to see Livi pick up points....hope they go down....

[St. Paddy]

14 hours ago, Indicator said:

Well Kucheryavyi of course.

A prophet amongst us!

[SaintJet]

That was a pretty awful performance from us and I was surprised how we looked totally bereft of any strategy to take the game to Dundee. Dundee looked like an old St.Johnstone team I used to watch over the past 10 years; hard working , pressing the game and having a focal point of attack.

We are seriously lucky that we are still in touch with some of the other teams - (forget Aberdeen and Hibs they'll be top six) who will be fighting it out at the bottom. 

The fact remains that we are still trying out new formations with new players hoping to find something that will work and the jury is very much out on the manager and what type of identity he wants his team to become.

Let's all be honest here, it's been a two months and we haven't seen one decent performance apart from a rearguard action at Parkhead. I have seen nothing from any of the new signings apart from the Goalie to give me hope that we might avoid the drop.

I will say however that the team going to the last is at least encouraging.

[Linky]

With such a young team, I do wonder how often injury time might play a part in any success this season. We might need to factor that into our tactics. When other teams have tired, we still have players who can run for another 90.

[Aitchy]

We could have had no complaints if we had been 3 or 4 down after 80 minutes. I talked about hoping to see a more positive approach at home, but that performance was as bad as many of the performance's we witnessed during Davidsons tenure.

I was really encouraged by the display from many of our new signings in the Celtic game and was hoping they would build on it, but it never happened. Many of these players will never have experienced the frantic, competitive way in which Scottish football is played and they are going to have to learn quickly. 

Keeping Chris Kane fit is going to be crucial for us this season. The likes of McCann, Kerr and Rooney rightly got the plaudits during the double season but he was every bit as important that season as well. He is so good at winning fouls, linking up with others and getting us up the pitch. Stevie May should never be played up front on his own again. Its been tried and tried for the past two years and it just does not work. He works well in a two, but cant play as the lone frontman and our performances suffer as a result.

I have been encouraged by Dan Phillips recent performances, if he can avoid picking up needless bookings and be consistent in his performances, then he will be a massive asset for us. Hopefully Drew Wright is not out for too long as felt we really missed him on Saturday.

Hopefully the break for the next two weeks provides the opportunity for us to get some more of the injured players back into training and also improve the fitness of others whilst working more on the shape and style that Macca wants from the team. 

 

 

[saintcraigieboy]

I know it is early days, but Dundee are also a team with new players, but looked stronger, fitter, sharper, bigger and had a game plan.

Another 2 goals from set pieces. But with only 2 tallish players we are going to be under pressure in every game.

Mate was sat behind Michael Beale and his notes for the first ten minutes were, Dundee more aggressive and sharper. St. Johnstone, defence has no mobility. Not wrong.

Major worry as even with Gordon, there is no pace.

Tough year ahead.

 

[Cagey]

37 minutes ago, saintcraigieboy said:

I know it is early days, but Dundee are also a team with new players, but looked stronger, fitter, sharper, bigger and had a game plan.

Another 2 goals from set pieces. But with only 2 tallish players we are going to be under pressure in every game.

Mate was sat behind Michael Beale and his notes for the first ten minutes were, Dundee more aggressive and sharper. St. Johnstone, defence has no mobility. Not wrong.

Major worry as even with Gordon, there is no pace.

Tough year ahead.

 

Yeah, McClelland surprised me how slow he was and Considine is just slow.

Much as I have had a downer on Liam recently I think he should be played against Rangers.

[jjohndb]

I haven't been to a saints game in decades but I always thought May was a modern incarnation of Kenny Aird? A super winger or Jinky of Celtic?  Must get up there and not for another funeral. 

[Cagey]

58 minutes ago, jjohndb said:

I haven't been to a saints game in decades but I always thought May was a modern incarnation of Kenny Aird? A super winger or Jinky of Celtic?  Must get up there and not for another funeral. 

You will be disappointed. May is no Kenny Aird or even Fred Aitken.

[St. Paddy]

1 hour ago, Cagey said:

You will be disappointed. May is no Kenny Aird or even Fred Aitken.

He's not even a stevie may, anymore.

[john.w]

On 9/3/2023 at 6:11 AM, pezza70 said:

Any word on when Clark maybe back.

I thought he and May started to show a nice combo last season

According to the beeb Clark and Wright close to return