St.Mirren V St.Johnstone - Wednesday 9th February

[garydavidson]

25 minutes ago, Saintdunc said:

Mahon was brought in to shore up the defence and should have started by now. Where was he tonight? Don’t be telling me he has fallen victim to out training methods as well. 

The Courier post-match interview with Davidson says Mahon has been ill so that is why he was missing.

[Pat McGroin]

4 minutes ago, Cagey said:

More than unhappy with so drastically change a team that had been on a decent run. We had to replace Hallberg . I hear what you say about Butterfield and left back may have been enforced but I had a feeling that team was not going to get us a win.

I was hoping I was wrong.

Basically I am just pissed off.

Let’s look at the facts. First half, we had by far the best chances. 
 

We got f*cked over by a shocking penalty decision. 
 

that potentially had an impact, but after a poor 10 mins, making wholesale player changes and changing shape reeked of desperation. 
 

left us completely disjointed. 
 

I don’t think the players believe in the coaching staff, I don’t even think the coaching staff believe in themselves now. It feels like they are waiting for the payoff. 
 

we have a massive squad that should be good enough to comfortably stay in this league. 
 

Right now. That isn’t translating onto the park and our inability to perform for more than 45 mins says more than anything. 

[jez1971]

Granted we were poor for long spells in that second half but let's be frank, the game turned after that shocking penalty decision.  Up till that point we'd had a few decent chances and Alnwick kept them in it with a couple of excellent saves.

Have to question the motivation tactics of the management team at half time, rather than them coming out with a point to prove after the unjust penalty decision, they completely lost the plot. As a previous poster said, the sudden urge to make loads of subs smacked of desperation.

On St Mirren, they are just horrible. Spent most of their time falling to the deck, aided by a ref who was only too willing to give them free kicks.  It's a man's game FFS.

Still think there's life in us yet but there's no doubt that was a sore one to take and could ultimately prove costly.

Edited February 9, 2022 by jez1971

[Mr T]

I still believe there is a rotten stench in that dressing room..

The way they started 2nd half points to a coach or coaches giving it the big I am and totally loosing all good will ..

I hope I am wrong but that team 2nd half looked devoid of a willingness to work which as someone looking in it looks like the tools were downed.

Oh and why put a right sided defender on the left? after replacing the left sided defender.... 

 

 

[MySpazz]

15 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

Let’s look at the facts. First half, we had by far the best chances. 
 

We got f*cked over by a shocking penalty decision. 
 

that potentially had an impact, but after a poor 10 mins, making wholesale player changes and changing shape reeked of desperation. 
 

left us completely disjointed. 
 

I don’t think the players believe in the coaching staff, I don’t even think the coaching staff believe in themselves now. It feels like they are waiting for the payoff. 
 

we have a massive squad that should be good enough to comfortably stay in this league. 
 

Right now. That isn’t translating onto the park and our inability to perform for more than 45 mins says more than anything. 

 

Have to agree with this.

Thought we were at the races for the first half and were conned for a pen.

Second half and a weary night ......

[RandomGuy]

28 minutes ago, Pat McGroin said:

that potentially had an impact, but after a poor 10 mins, making wholesale player changes and changing shape reeked of desperation. 
 

We were 2-1 down in a must win game with half an hour left, we'd been behind for 10 minutes and barely touched the ball in their half. zero complaints about him changing the shape for me.

Issue was we don't have the players to change the shape, as hes built the squad for a back five. Literally no wingers on the bench.

The players are spineless. Completely gave up after we conceded yet again, no idea if thats on the manager, on them, or both, but its pathetic.

[mike_gain]

I think we're at the stage of needing to win at least half of our remaining games to finish 11th.

An embarrassing state of affairs really and one that will need lot of questions to be answered at the end of the season. 

No team should ever take top flight football for granted but I think we had every right to expect a decent season this time out.

It's crazy to say but perhaps we were incredibly lucky last season and the coaching staff got results well beyond their abilities. Perhaps they never engineered last season so have no idea why it worked and so can turn things around this time out.

We are this season's relegation front runners. Dundee will pick up points and we simply will not. A quite pathetic way to end our run in the too flight.

[Pat McGroin]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy said:

We were 2-1 down in a must win game with half an hour left, we'd been behind for 10 minutes and barely touched the ball in their half. zero complaints about him changing the shape for me.

Issue was we don't have the players to change the shape, as hes built the squad for a back five. Literally no wingers on the bench.

The players are spineless. Completely gave up after we conceded yet again, no idea if thats on the manager, on them, or both, but its pathetic.

Disagree. They had been on top for 10 mins. Almost expected with the late goal, but games can ebb and flow like that.
 

Yes they scored, but I didn’t feel out of the game at that point, I’ve seen us take a 20 min pummelling before then come back into matches. Hearts at Tynie for example. 
 

To discount what was a generally good 45 because of a slow 10 mins isn’t right. 
 

I have moaned at callum for being too slow with subs so I feel bad saying that I think he went too far the other way tonight. 

[Pat McGroin]

22 minutes ago, mike_gain said:

I think we're at the stage of needing to win at least half of our remaining games to finish 11th.

An embarrassing state of affairs really and one that will need lot of questions to be answered at the end of the season. 

No team should ever take top flight football for granted but I think we had every right to expect a decent season this time out.

It's crazy to say but perhaps we were incredibly lucky last season and the coaching staff got results well beyond their abilities. Perhaps they never engineered last season so have no idea why it worked and so can turn things around this time out.

We are this season's relegation front runners. Dundee will pick up points and we simply will not. A quite pathetic way to end our run in the too flight.

I said the same a few weeks back. 
 

Last season was our “Leicester”. We had a good squad, practically no injuries and results couldn’t have gone better for us. 
 

Ranieri was never a manager capable of miracles, things just fell for him. Sometimes it happens. 
 

This season I feel like we’ve had a mega tough rub of the green, but that doesn’t mean that we didn’t have the Midas touch last year. You can have both 

[rik2304]

Early reports that MacPherson has dislocated his shoulder again.

[crieffsaintandy]

1 hour ago, Pat McGroin said:

Gordon was a better player alongside Kerr. It’s no coincidence the drop from both him and McCart. 
 

It’s comfy in a Rolls Royce 

Totally correct McCart been getting a lot if stick about his displays, but Liam Gordon hasn't been much better, but he goes under the radar, his distribution is awful, when mahon came on for him at livi last week the defence looked far better and we started to play better from the back.

[Wardy]

Keep the faith. We will get there. 
Get Mayzo on from the start. 
really pleased with Hendry. Him and Stevie could be a good partnership 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Wardy

[RandomGuy]

7 hours ago, Pat McGroin said:

To discount what was a generally good 45 because of a slow 10 mins isn’t right. 

It wasn't off just 10 minutes though.

We've not come back to win a game playing a back 5 since January last year.

We've equalised this season playing a back five just once out of 15 attempts.

That was a must win match and he rolled the dice, I'm happy he took that risk. The issue was he never bothered to sign the players to make a different system work, and the players just collapse mentally when we fall behind, so the shape we changed too was a mess.

[blueheaven]

Can we finally put to bed the notion that 4-4-2 will solve our problems? Switching to 4-4-2 last night wasn't just ineffective: it actually made us worse.

I was worried as soon as I saw the starting line-up, especially with that midfield. I'd be interested to know just how many of those changes were enforced, because for me Butterfield and May have been a key part of our improved performances of late and yet they were both left on the bench.

In fairness I thought we played OK in the first half, but when we lost the equaliser we seemed to lose all shape and all hope and Davidson just doesn't have the tactical nous or motivational skills to fix that once a game is in motion. And in a situation where we're fighting for our lives and need to make a change in the middle of the park, I have to question the decision to bring on the inexperienced Charlie Gilmour rather than someone like Liam Craig who has been around the block and is a natural leader.

Central midfield has been a big issue for a while now. We made how many new signings during the window - eight? And yet Hallberg was the only one of those brought in to address our midfield issues. Hallberg does look an excellent signing but we saw last night and in the second half on Saturday that when he's not there all of our midfield problems return. For me it's bordering on jaw-dropping that the manager was given a virtually unprecedented license to go out and fix our squad, and yet he neglected to fully address our biggest problem area.

At this stage I have some major question marks hanging over some of our other new signings. Are they genuinely better than what we already had? Were they signed to strengthen the right areas? I'm having serious doubts. Chucking good money after bad is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

[Brian Potter]

There were definitely positives to take from the first half. We were getting up the park better. Testing their keeper. Our penalty was a result of positive play from Middleton. their penalty, soft as it was, knocked the stuffing out of us.

Second half was dire. Davidson’s desperation tactics of emptying the bench had me just as confused as the players as to what we were trying to do. The only positive was actually playing Middleton on the wing firing crosses into our strikers who are both decent in the air. 

What really stuck out was how often we commit fouls. It seemed every Midden attack was stopped by us pulling shirts or wrestling them to the ground. This is clearly (no pun intended) a pre-planned strategy. It was like watching the Six Nations. Historically we are one of the most organised teams defensively but that has gone to shit like everything else this season. Discipline comes from the manager. We are seriously lacking it and it’s killing us.

[Aitchy]

Can anyone make a strong argument for Ali Crawford to be starting games?

He had his shot on target and a few decent touches last night, but beyond that, he actively goes missing or when the ball does come to him, he is unable to control it in time or just looks like he wants to get rid of it as soon as possible. There were times last night when the St Mirren midfield were breaking forward and he was just casually jogging back, not picking anyone up.

Staggers me that Callum Davidson, Steven MacLean and Alec Cleland, all who have played at a high level think that he is the answer to our current predicament.

 

[Bruno Strasser]

All this hard luck stuff is concerning. If the players start buying in to it i.e. its the ref, it's the injuries, it was unlucky the mindset becomes negative and they start believing we are beat. At the end of the day St Mirren were behind and came back to beat us. When have we last done that. 11th and the playoff is our only chance now but after being at the game last night I think we would probably lose the play offs. All teams need to do is to score against us and its game over.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by Bruno Strasser

[pezza70]

Hendry needed to at least hit the target instead of blasting over with that chance in the second half, we didn’t muster much at all in the second half and that chance should of been buried 

[Cagey]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Can we finally put to bed the notion that 4-4-2 will solve our problems? Switching to 4-4-2 last night wasn't just ineffective: it actually made us worse.

I was worried as soon as I saw the starting line-up, especially with that midfield. I'd be interested to know just how many of those changes were enforced, because for me Butterfield and May have been a key part of our improved performances of late and yet they were both left on the bench.

In fairness I thought we played OK in the first half, but when we lost the equaliser we seemed to lose all shape and all hope and Davidson just doesn't have the tactical nous or motivational skills to fix that once a game is in motion. And in a situation where we're fighting for our lives and need to make a change in the middle of the park, I have to question the decision to bring on the inexperienced Charlie Gilmour rather than someone like Liam Craig who has been around the block and is a natural leader.

Central midfield has been a big issue for a while now. We made how many new signings during the window - eight? And yet Hallberg was the only one of those brought in to address our midfield issues. Hallberg does look an excellent signing but we saw last night and in the second half on Saturday that when he's not there all of our midfield problems return. For me it's bordering on jaw-dropping that the manager was given a virtually unprecedented license to go out and fix our squad, and yet he neglected to fully address our biggest problem area.

At this stage I have some major question marks hanging over some of our other new signings. Are they genuinely better than what we already had? Were they signed to strengthen the right areas? I'm having serious doubts. Chucking good money after bad is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

Are you sure you are not me. Almost every time you post word for word ,my thoughts.

Just can't understand why he doesn't use Craig ,if only for the second half. He is a motivator and leader on and off the field.

[SaintJet]

2 hours ago, blueheaven said:

Can we finally put to bed the notion that 4-4-2 will solve our problems? Switching to 4-4-2 last night wasn't just ineffective: it actually made us worse.

I was worried as soon as I saw the starting line-up, especially with that midfield. I'd be interested to know just how many of those changes were enforced, because for me Butterfield and May have been a key part of our improved performances of late and yet they were both left on the bench.

In fairness I thought we played OK in the first half, but when we lost the equaliser we seemed to lose all shape and all hope and Davidson just doesn't have the tactical nous or motivational skills to fix that once a game is in motion. And in a situation where we're fighting for our lives and need to make a change in the middle of the park, I have to question the decision to bring on the inexperienced Charlie Gilmour rather than someone like Liam Craig who has been around the block and is a natural leader.

Central midfield has been a big issue for a while now. We made how many new signings during the window - eight? And yet Hallberg was the only one of those brought in to address our midfield issues. Hallberg does look an excellent signing but we saw last night and in the second half on Saturday that when he's not there all of our midfield problems return. For me it's bordering on jaw-dropping that the manager was given a virtually unprecedented license to go out and fix our squad, and yet he neglected to fully address our biggest problem area.

At this stage I have some major question marks hanging over some of our other new signings. Are they genuinely better than what we already had? Were they signed to strengthen the right areas? I'm having serious doubts. Chucking good money after bad is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

I thought some of the changes smacked of desperation too. I thought maybe he's just firing Gilmour in to see how he would react in the heat of battle.

It was definitely a 'roll the dice' strategy and really is worrying. 

I thought Calum's comments after the game highlighted an almost resigned admission that we are lost.

[SaintJet]

24 minutes ago, pezza70 said:

Hendry needed to at least hit the target instead of blasting over with that chance in the second half, we didn’t muster much at all in the second half and that chance should of been buried 

That's the problem right there; we had almost no chances second half and never seem to be able to produce a full 90 minutes of competitive football.

[Cagey]

1 hour ago, Aitchy said:

Can anyone make a strong argument for Ali Crawford to be starting games?

He had his shot on target and a few decent touches last night, but beyond that, he actively goes missing or when the ball does come to him, he is unable to control it in time or just looks like he wants to get rid of it as soon as possible. There were times last night when the St Mirren midfield were breaking forward and he was just casually jogging back, not picking anyone up.

Staggers me that Callum Davidson, Steven MacLean and Alec Cleland, all who have played at a high level think that he is the answer to our current predicament.

 

I don't think there was a single poster on here that wasn't astounded that he got signed,never mind 2.5 reckon years.

[Cagey]

• Poor Callum. He doesn't make sub til 88th minute ,he gets pelters. He makes 5 subs in 10 mins ,he gets slaughtered. Who'd be a manager .

[RandomGuy]

1 hour ago, Bruno Strasser said:

At the end of the day St Mirren were behind and came back to beat us. When have we last done that. 

In the league, it's January 2021, the win away to Kilmarnock. 

[Cagey]

Reading the BBC timeline almost every second line says Alex Grieve wins a free kick. For the penelty it says Grieve draws a foul. Is he a diving barsteward or are we poor tacklers ?.

By the way the sportscene pundits thought the pen was given for hand ball which they said it wasn't. I think other reports said for Grieve drawing a foul.