New poll: The Manager

[MySpazz]

58 minutes ago, sixties saintee said:

How can people still be undecided

There's a new team, signings being made and an attempt to invest in the club and team, which CD will lead. 

 

Clearly the team was not good enough last season, including unfortunate injuries and our best players sold.

Some folk won't be happy until relegation..... to justify their moaning.

Why bother coming to the football or following saints if it's just to slag them off?

[HertsAgain]

39 minutes ago, MySpazz said:

There's a new team, signings being made and an attempt to invest in the club and team, which CD will lead. 

 

Clearly the team was not good enough last season, including unfortunate injuries and our best players sold.

Some folk won't be happy until relegation..... to justify their moaning.

Why bother coming to the football or following saints if it's just to slag them off?

Good God.

We didn't get out of a League Cup group we should have walked and have lost our first league game at home.  All with "the new team" and with "CD leading", and sorry to say, all horribly predictable.  Our better players have gone and as yet, have not been replaced, even though the club and manager have known for literally over a year that this situation would be the case.  The consensus is that the team is actually in a worse state than they were last season, if that's at all possible.

A number of us won't be back at a Saints game again until Davidson has gone - and don't DARE call me "not a real supporter" - I've stuck with Saints through more bad times over the decades than I care to remember.  How much is enough for you?

 

[Linky]

No one is slagging anyone off, the Saints support is one of the most forgiving I know, but the situation we're in is quite ridiculous. The number of signings made, the money wasted, the excuses the manager gives, the blame he lays on others, the fact the staff have had to move on if they disagree with the manager. The longer this goes on, the more difficult it is for someone to turn it around.

For me, it's not just about the results, it's about a lack of vision and integrity. 

[rik2304]

There's a very bizarre rhetoric developing where some appear to believe that dissenters want Davidson to fail.

 

I was delighted when he replaced Tommy and he had my full support.

I was concerned about the form early in his tenure but he turned it round and achieved something truly remarkable.  

But it's now gone on too long and first and foremost I care about the club. 

[SlickDT]

2 hours ago, rik2304 said:

There's a very bizarre rhetoric developing where some appear to believe that dissenters want Davidson to fail.

 

I was delighted when he replaced Tommy and he had my full support.

I was concerned about the form early in his tenure but he turned it round and achieved something truly remarkable.  

But it's now gone on too long and first and foremost I care about the club. 

I'm very much in this camp. I'm desperate to be wrong. I want Davidson to turn things around and prove me wrong. I'm just now certain he doesn't have the ability to do so. The more time he is in the job, the more damage I believe he will do to both the squad and his legacy.

I personally don't understand those that have decided not to come back whilst he is in charge, I personally will be there no matter how poor we are on the pitch (probably makes me a mug), but everyone is able to spend their money how they see fit.

[garydavidson]

19 minutes ago, SlickDT said:

I personally don't understand those that have decided not to come back whilst he is in charge, I personally will be there no matter how poor we are on the pitch (probably makes me a mug), but everyone is able to spend their money how they see fit.

I think its more sadistic than being a mug 

[sixties saintee]

17 hours ago, MySpazz said:

There's a new team, signings being made and an attempt to invest in the club and team, which CD will lead. 

 

Clearly the team was not good enough last season, including unfortunate injuries and our best players sold.

Some folk won't be happy until relegation..... to justify their moaning.

Why bother coming to the football or following saints if it's just to slag them off?

Never slagged Saints off in ma life, but will slag off bad management, nothing has changed wae Davidson in over 10 months, and it's the same auld this season.

[That_Dave]

I think giving him 4 games this season to prove himself is the least he deserves. Two cup victories and a top half finish in two seasons isn't a bad return. He's earned the chance to see which of his two seasons this one will be most like. Lets' not forgot the Cup winning seasons started with 4 points from 5 games, including a 1-0 home defeat to Hibs.

There are things he's hopefully learnt from Saturday. Motherwell away is next, a club who are in crisis a little and our system on Saturday lent itself more to away games. Then it's Rangers away, were we need to see more fight than we did against the Old Firm last season. Then it's Aberdeen at home: an improved performance, and deserved win, in that game will relieve the pressure a lot.

If in 4 games time we've had 4 defeats and no good performances that's one thing. If we've had 4 points from those games, with a tough fixture out the way, it's something we can build on. It's totally illogical to sack him now, and not find out if we're moving in the right direction. 1 SPL game and a few matches with no-SPL sides isn't enough to give us an idea of how the league will pan out this season. The next 3 games will give a lot more evidence. 

From here on, 1 point from the next two and then a victory against Aberdeen is a decent enough start. I suspect a draw against Motherwell and narrow defeat to Rangers will be taken as further evidence he has to go, but in the bigger picture it might be more evidence that he's turning things around. It's not until after the Aberdeen game that we can really judge how things are going.

[blueheaven]

2 hours ago, That_Dave said:

I think giving him 4 games this season to prove himself is the least he deserves. Two cup victories and a top half finish in two seasons isn't a bad return. He's earned the chance to see which of his two seasons this one will be most like. Lets' not forgot the Cup winning seasons started with 4 points from 5 games, including a 1-0 home defeat to Hibs.

There are things he's hopefully learnt from Saturday. Motherwell away is next, a club who are in crisis a little and our system on Saturday lent itself more to away games. Then it's Rangers away, were we need to see more fight than we did against the Old Firm last season. Then it's Aberdeen at home: an improved performance, and deserved win, in that game will relieve the pressure a lot.

If in 4 games time we've had 4 defeats and no good performances that's one thing. If we've had 4 points from those games, with a tough fixture out the way, it's something we can build on. It's totally illogical to sack him now, and not find out if we're moving in the right direction. 1 SPL game and a few matches with no-SPL sides isn't enough to give us an idea of how the league will pan out this season. The next 3 games will give a lot more evidence. 

From here on, 1 point from the next two and then a victory against Aberdeen is a decent enough start. I suspect a draw against Motherwell and narrow defeat to Rangers will be taken as further evidence he has to go, but in the bigger picture it might be more evidence that he's turning things around. It's not until after the Aberdeen game that we can really judge how things are going.

I think this is a very generous view and if it wasn't for the existence of the transfer window I'd probably be inclined to go with you on giving him until the Aberdeen game. But by the time that game is out of the way there will be only a week left until the window closes and it's not going to be enough time for a new manager to assess the squad and target new players. It could also be a much less attractive job for new candidates if we're already rooted to the bottom of the table and there's no opportunity for making signings. That could impact on the quality of manager we get next.

I think there will always be a reason to give Davidson X number of more games to turn things around. But surely there has to come a point where it's recognised that things just aren't going to change. If we'd seen Davidson enter this season with a new way of playing, an obvious attempt at solving our goalscoring issues and some sign of building a squad for the future, then I'd agree that we should wait and see. But all indications from the games we've seen so far are that the same things are going wrong, and his budget is being wasted on players who are past their best, will not solve our attacking issues and cannot be sold on for a profit. We still need more players before the window closes, but to be honest I don't trust Callum Davidson to either identify or work with them.

 

[sixties saintee]

3 hours ago, That_Dave said:

I think giving him 4 games this season to prove himself is the least he deserves. Two cup victories and a top half finish in two seasons isn't a bad return. He's earned the chance to see which of his two seasons this one will be most like. Lets' not forgot the Cup winning seasons started with 4 points from 5 games, including a 1-0 home defeat to Hibs.

There are things he's hopefully learnt from Saturday. Motherwell away is next, a club who are in crisis a little and our system on Saturday lent itself more to away games. Then it's Rangers away, were we need to see more fight than we did against the Old Firm last season. Then it's Aberdeen at home: an improved performance, and deserved win, in that game will relieve the pressure a lot.

If in 4 games time we've had 4 defeats and no good performances that's one thing. If we've had 4 points from those games, with a tough fixture out the way, it's something we can build on. It's totally illogical to sack him now, and not find out if we're moving in the right direction. 1 SPL game and a few matches with no-SPL sides isn't enough to give us an idea of how the league will pan out this season. The next 3 games will give a lot more evidence. 

From here on, 1 point from the next two and then a victory against Aberdeen is a decent enough start. I suspect a draw against Motherwell and narrow defeat to Rangers will be taken as further evidence he has to go, but in the bigger picture it might be more evidence that he's turning things around. It's not until after the Aberdeen game that we can really judge how things are going.

Enough is enough, he is  not gonna change, been given enough time .

[crieffsaintandy]

Think we are long past the deserving stage, really think should just get shot now before he does anymore damage in league position (staying bottom) and any further transfers, the longer he hangs on the harder it is going to be for the person taking over to rectify the position.

As for going to the football to slag them off? I think everyone attends wishing it was better and everything was going great, saints winning putting on a bit of silky football, but it ain't and people are not blind to the utter dross we are paying to watch, not just recently, the whole of last season, he now has had a pre season to sort it and it looks worse than ever, suppose we are all different but this blind loyalty and to just accept it seems a strange take on it from a small section of the support.

One last thing it's some club for getting injuries, must be really unlucky or somthings wrong in the training/physio dept.

[rickardo]

Get rid of him Saturday night if we loose to Motherwell , that will give the unfortunate replacement the Rangers game to come in to access the “ players “that we have,and you never no players fighting for a new manager just might turn them over . 
 

And then I woke up.

[blueheaven]

On the point of people going to games just to "slag off" the team - if anything, I'd say the opposite is true and the Saints crowd as a whole has been patient, supportive and generous almost to the point of it being counter-productive. I was very surprised that there were no real signs of fan unrest after the Hibs game. I really thought that would have been considered the final straw by a lot of people and expected to hear some serious booing at the very least. Perhaps we were fortunate that Hibs had a fairly loud support as they drowned out whatever might have been coming from the home crowd.

Here on the forum I've seen a lot of criticism of the manager, but I've seen very little "slagging" going on.

I really think that if any other club in the division was in our position, there would have been fan protests and chanting for the manager to go by now.

[sixties saintee]

9 minutes ago, blueheaven said:

On the point of people going to games just to "slag off" the team - if anything, I'd say the opposite is true and the Saints crowd as a whole has been patient, supportive and generous almost to the point of it being counter-productive. I was very surprised that there were no real signs of fan unrest after the Hibs game. I really thought that would have been considered the final straw by a lot of people and expected to hear some serious booing at the very least. Perhaps we were fortunate that Hibs had a fairly loud support as they drowned out whatever might have been coming from the home crowd.

Here on the forum I've seen a lot of criticism of the manager, but I've seen very little "slagging" going on.

I really think that if any other club in the division was in our position, there would have been fan protests and chanting for the manager to go by now.

Win or lose Saturday the fans have tae start protesting.

[belfastsaintee]

I’m happy if we win and happy if we lose this one . Ridiculous position to be in , especially when I can’t even know defeat means we are any closer to a change at the top . 

[rik2304]

I don't want Saints to lose. Never have.

But I have zero belief that they will win.

[tucker]

I was one of the supporter's that was happy with Callum, Thought he was hard done by last summer with Kerr, Mccann last hours of the window.but after the poor January and summer window so far.I believe we need a change very soon of manager who only plays one system of 5 at the back,I've never seen us so weak a team for a long time 

[Shibbydoo]

Watching the Utd game tonight go toe to toe with a decent European team.

The memories!

Hard to believe it's only taken Callum a year to go from that to where we are now. That's some shitshow effort!

[Shibbydoo]

43 minutes ago, tucker said:

I was one of the supporter's that was happy with Callum, Thought he was hard done by last summer with Kerr, Mccann last hours of the window.but after the poor January and summer window so far.I believe we need a change very soon of manager who only plays one system of 5 at the back,I've never seen us so weak a team for a long time 

We were all right behind him this time last year I think.

But he's been badly found out since then, and this formation makes my eyes bleed.

[ex-montrosesaintee]

The problem with protesting is that I think very few of us dislike Callum, he's a Saints legend.  We all (well most) think his management skills are not good enough and he must go.

Protesting feels like just kicking the guy when he's down.  Protesting should be to encourage the board/chairman to take action.

In our case it seems very clear that the board/chairman are not even listening.  The only people hearing any protests will be Callum and his players.  

[pezza70]

49 minutes ago, montrosesaintee said:

The problem with protesting is that I think very few of us dislike Callum, he's a Saints legend.  We all (well most) think his management skills are not good enough and he must go.

Protesting feels like just kicking the guy when he's down.  Protesting should be to encourage the board/chairman to take action.

In our case it seems very clear that the board/chairman are not even listening.  The only people hearing any protests will be Callum and his players.  

That’s the problem a supporter protest is very un St Johnstone like, I also hate saying sack him and I feel like I’m personally stabbing a saintees legend in the back by even thinking he should be sacked but enough is enough, if he is still in charge by the World Cup I really believe we will be rooted so deeply at the bottom of the table that any new potential manager and players coming in at the next window will know they are facing relegation.

[Cagey]

9 hours ago, Shibbydoo said:

We were all right behind him this time last year I think.

But he's been badly found out since then, and this formation makes my eyes bleed.

A positive manager would have beat Lask and maybe even Galatasery.

[blueheaven]

43 minutes ago, Cagey said:

A positive manager would have beat Lask and maybe even Galatasery.

Not sure it was positivity that was the problem in those games. I think Callum got his tactics pretty much spot-on but we should have strengthened more ahead of those games and the thing that really killed us was the decision to play our exhausted full-strength team against Dundee United just a few days before the LASK second leg. Such a bad and costly decision.

Yesterday was the one-year anniversary of the Galatasaray first leg and it's likely not a single one of the 11 players who started that game will be in our starting line-up against Motherwell tomorrow. 

 

[cristo]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:15 PM, That_Dave said:

I think giving him 4 games this season to prove himself is the least he deserves. Two cup victories and a top half finish in two seasons isn't a bad return. He's earned the chance to see which of his two seasons this one will be most like. Lets' not forgot the Cup winning seasons started with 4 points from 5 games, including a 1-0 home defeat to Hibs.

There are things he's hopefully learnt from Saturday. Motherwell away is next, a club who are in crisis a little and our system on Saturday lent itself more to away games. Then it's Rangers away, were we need to see more fight than we did against the Old Firm last season. Then it's Aberdeen at home: an improved performance, and deserved win, in that game will relieve the pressure a lot.

If in 4 games time we've had 4 defeats and no good performances that's one thing. If we've had 4 points from those games, with a tough fixture out the way, it's something we can build on. It's totally illogical to sack him now, and not find out if we're moving in the right direction. 1 SPL game and a few matches with no-SPL sides isn't enough to give us an idea of how the league will pan out this season. The next 3 games will give a lot more evidence. 

From here on, 1 point from the next two and then a victory against Aberdeen is a decent enough start. I suspect a draw against Motherwell and narrow defeat to Rangers will be taken as further evidence he has to go, but in the bigger picture it might be more evidence that he's turning things around. It's not until after the Aberdeen game that we can really judge how things are going.

I'm  afraid he's had his 4 games. They were against Annan, QOS, Elgin and Ayr in a league Cup group that we should have walked through. Two of these teams are from league 2, so a great opportunity to play some good attacking football, rack up a few goals and show that last season's mistakes have been learned from? Nah. Same old crap. We finished third in that group, that should have been the end for the management team, not a platform to give them yet another four games to make up for it.

[rik2304]

There's every chance we could lose all of the next 4-5 and not even score a goal.