ancientsaint Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 lets just wait and see what the requested report says - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scobby_SJFC Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It's lucky we have such good infrastructure and can afford the fine SundayGirl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
541ntees Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 gary macdonald has been called up for the palestinian international team as his grandpa was from palestine. the banner was to celebrate this. its all gary macdonalds fault!!! Scobby_SJFC and templeofsaints 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 What about all the years we were involved in conflicts in the Middle East? Were our flags banned? Club should state that the supporter in question was of Palestinian origin and ask UEFA why they are discriminating against certain states and not others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 How long have you been aware that the Palestine flag is against uefa rules? We were also never reprimanded for any previous incidents,after doing well for a while,you're back to talking out your arse! For over two weeks, since Dundalk got the exact same fine as us for flying a Palestine flag. http://www.thescore.ie/dundalk-uefa-fine-palestine-flag-hadjuk-split-1634795-Aug2014/ And no we've never been fined before, but we've received warnings due to pitch invasions leading to them paying us more attention. Its fairly obvious why they decided to fly the Palestine flag, to try and wriggle the way around it is almost Old Firm levels of whataboutery, just accept we have some twats in our support and they'll get us into bother. Also don't forget most of you were probably criticising Celtic fans for the Palestine flag at our game this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Palestine is a occupied zone, enforced by a state that blockcades and bombs men women and children guess which flag i think should not be allowed If only everything were so black and white, life would be easy lm. Didn't you once say something similar to me? Maybe someone else though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerthSeany Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I love how we have written to Fifa for information regarding the fine... NO reply. So were having to write to them again. 541ntees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slf Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I love how we have written to Fifa for information regarding the fine... NO reply. So were having to write to them again. thought it was uefa ! did ye know england are playing tonight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitchy Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 For over two weeks, since Dundalk got the exact same fine as us for flying a Palestine flag. http://www.thescore.ie/dundalk-uefa-fine-palestine-flag-hadjuk-split-1634795-Aug2014/ And no we've never been fined before, but we've received warnings due to pitch invasions leading to them paying us more attention. Its fairly obvious why they decided to fly the Palestine flag, to try and wriggle the way around it is almost Old Firm levels of whataboutery, just accept we have some twats in our support and they'll get us into bother. Also don't forget most of you were probably criticising Celtic fans for the Palestine flag at our game this season. Do you have any links showing that we were warned by UEFA about pitch invasions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Why? The rules been brought up a few times in different situations over the past few years, we've drawn attention to ourselves (and been let off) with the flares and pitch invasion incidents. Whether you agree with the rule or not we deserve the ban because we've now broken three rules, and continue to break them despite being warned. You can grunt and groan about what means what and why shouldn't you be allowed to fly a flag (personally, I think its a strange rule, but its one thats gained increased publicity and regardless of that I still don't understand why Saints fans felt the need to fly for that game and that game only, pointless behaviour I have no time for at all). But we drew the attention of UEFA, proceeded to break another rule despite that increased attention, and now we're being punished for it. Hopefully we learn from it and move on, instead of trying to pretend we're blameless. Total whataboutery re past incidents, and an odd urge to side with UEFA because we've "provoked" them, which apparently means they can then do what they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garydavidson Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) For over two weeks, since Dundalk got the exact same fine as us for flying a Palestine flag. http://www.thescore.ie/dundalk-uefa-fine-palestine-flag-hadjuk-split-1634795-Aug2014/ And no we've never been fined before, but we've received warnings due to pitch invasions leading to them paying us more attention. Its fairly obvious why they decided to fly the Palestine flag, to try and wriggle the way around it is almost Old Firm levels of whataboutery, just accept we have some twats in our support and they'll get us into bother. Also don't forget most of you were probably criticising Celtic fans for the Palestine flag at our game this season. How do you know we have had warnings? *edit Ah I see you have already been taken to task about your wild claim. Edited September 3, 2014 by garydavidson sconesjfc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainstand Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I don't know what is worse having UEFA fine us or having some of our own fans trying to write the prosecution case for them. Random did you know prior to the match that the Israel flag was permitted but the Palestine flag was banned? I certainly didn't. Scobby_SJFC, Oldermoresensiblepack, Born2Bru and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex-montrosesaintee Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm trying to work out how carrying any flag other than a Saints flag could enhance my enjoyment of the football. Struggling. SundayGirl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintgscot Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 i see paper says that it is because it was a political flag. So out of intrest do Luzern fans get a fine for flying the yes scotland flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rik2304 Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Am taking my "Free Tibet" flag to the Dundee game. Dave H, Havana Saint, fazman1977 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali91 Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Whether there was any point in flying the flag is neither here nor there, this is an outrageous decision by Uefa and one which should not be defended by any Saints fans, no matter how much they enjoy acting high and mighty over the rest of the Saints support. Born2Bru, garydavidson, rickardo and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerthSeany Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Palestine is a occupied zone, enforced by a state that blockcades and bombs men women and children guess which flag i think should not be allowed If it was an Israeli flag nothing would be said about it though, I'm not saying either should be allowed or whatever but if an Israeli flag would be allowed then that's like taking sides in the conflict? Which Uefa shouldn't be seen doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Its fairly obvious why they decided to fly the Palestine flag, to try and wriggle the way around it is almost Old Firm levels of whataboutery, just accept we have some twats in our support and they'll get us into bother. Also don't forget most of you were probably criticising Celtic fans for the Palestine flag at our game this season. I don't think anyone's trying to wriggle around it. I haven't seen anyone defending the guy who had the flag. That flag has nothing to do with Saints and waving it at a Saints game is just inexplicable. We seem to pretty much have a consensus on that. But I think you're wrong to imply we already knew about this rule. I certainly didn't know about it, and didn't hear any mention of it prior to the game. If UEFA have a list of national flags that are not allowed to be shown at football matches, they should publish that list on their website so that fans can access it. I think there's a wider issue here, which is that UEFA are saying a country's national flag can be offensive or provocative. I consider that to be a pretty unacceptable position for them to take, and for them to fine our football club based on that position is pretty scandalous. If Saints are to be forced to pay this fine, then I think they should do so whilst making a statement that we're proud to be an inclusive club who have a history of welcoming all nationalities, races and cultures through our doors, and that the fine is paid out of obligation rather than agreement. Racism, homophobia and sectarianism continues to blight football all across Europe, yet this is the issue they choose to clamp down on? SundayGirl, Oldermoresensiblepack, Pat McGroin and 8 others 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranmere Saintee Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Had a decent nights sleep and still cannot see what RULE we have broken!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueheaven Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Had a decent nights sleep and still cannot see what RULE we have broken!! The rule is Article 16 of UEFA's Disciplinary Regulations, section 2 (e): Order and Security at UEFA competition matches. The relevant part is: Host associations and clubs are responsible for order and security both inside and around the stadium before, during and after matches. They are liable for incidents of any kind and may be subject to disciplinary measures and directives unless they can prove that they have not been negligent in any way in the organisation of the match. However, all associations and clubs are liable for the following inappropriate behaviour on the part of their supporters and may be subject to disciplinary measures and directives even if they can prove the absence of any negligence in relation to the organisation of the match: e) the use of gestures, words, objects or any other means to transmit any message that is not fit for a sports event, particularly messages that are of a political, ideological, religious, offensive or provocative nature; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat McGroin Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 What exactly is political about a flag? I'm pretty sure if we took this all the way any lawyer worth their salt would have this quashed. They'd probably drop the case before it even reached court IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooj Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Sorry, I cant get the quote function to work. BH suggested that flying a Palestinian flag at a Saints game was inexplicable - I disagree. I can fully understand why some people would choose a sporting event, with a large crowd, and with extensive national and international media coverage, to show their personal solidarity with a group of people that they believed to be oppressed/victimised/murdered, particularly at a time when the 'international spotlight' was so firmly focussed on the conflict. I am not defending the act of displaying the flag but I can understand it. I completely agree with the points about the general awareness of this particular rule and, more importantly, its interpretation. There is a stark contrast between the announcements made by the club on other issues (e.g. warnings against pyro, pitch invasions) where there would be no doubt in the minds of fans that these actions would have serious consequences and the information about flags. I would have had no idea that some national flags are permitted but not others and I would have even less idea that offences would attract such large fines. The comments about the relatively small fines dished out for racism are particularly pertinent and can only serve to reduce anyone's confidence in football's governing bodies (if there is any confidence left...) Born2Bru, Brogan, Aitchy and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
california_saintee Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Saints only need to google for evidence of where fines have not been handed out Some of the Rangers fans attempts are even worse. That's right: During the 90s, there were thousands of **** wearing gazza strips at Ibrox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
california_saintee Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Next time, just make sure to print "West Bank Saints Supporters Club" on it, and it'll all be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelosi Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Rik taking your "Free Tibet" flag to the Dundee game would be a waste of time as this match is not a UEFA competition...UEFA will not involve themselves in this game much the same as !they and our SFA have ignored the religious chanting, flags and banners seen and heard at numerous Scottish Football matches involving both Celtic and The Rangers. Article 16 should be added to the SFA's rules and regulations for the game in Scotland, or at the very least a version of it, but somehow I'd be very surprised if it ever was! Anyway what has Tibet ever done to the world! Am taking my "Free Tibet" flag to the Dundee game. Dave H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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